episode 102 | May 9, 2023
Personal Growth
Law Enforcement/Military
Experts & Industry Leaders

Ep. 102: Green Beret Chris Lee

Feeling dissatisfied with his life, Christopher Lee left his cushy job with a prestigious hotel to pursue a career as a special forces Green Beret Medical Sergeant.  Now, Chris uses everything he has learned from pushing himself to the extreme to help others achieve success in their lives through his company Top Tier Performance Coaching. 
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Silvercore Podcast 102

[00:00:00] Travis Bader: I'm Travis Bader, and this is the Silvercore Podcast, Silvercore has been providing its members with the skills and knowledge necessary to be confident and proficient in the outdoors for over 20 years, and we make it easier for people to deepen their connection to the natural world. If you enjoy the positive and educational content we provide, please let others know by sharing, commenting and following so that you can join in on everything that Silvercore stands for.

[00:00:40] Travis Bader: If you'd like to learn more about becoming a member of the Silvercore Club and community, visit our website at Silvercore.ca

[00:00:51] Travis Bader: From Frisbee golf instructor, special Forces Green Beret. And now a performance coach dedicated to helping overextended, unsatisfied career men and women. Welcome to the Silvercore podcast, 

[00:01:04] Chris Lee: Chris Lee, thanks so much for having me. This is awesome. I'm stoked. 

[00:01:07] Travis Bader: Oh, I had to get the Frisbee golf part in there.

[00:01:10] Travis Bader: Cause I dunno, that's a pretty neat kind of place for you to start from. Yeah. Tell me about that. You, you were a prof, a professional Frisbee golf instructor. I didn't know there was such a thing. Uh, 

[00:01:21] Chris Lee: not quite that glamorous. I was, I was actually working right, right before I enlisted. I, uh, I, I was working at a fancy hotel in Virginia, uh, and my job was like helping, helping people get their dinner reservation straight.

[00:01:33] Chris Lee: And then also teaching kids how to play Frisbee golf and roast and marshmallows with 'em on the weekends. And, and like, looking back, particularly in like some of the more difficult parts of my training, looking back, that was like such a cush job. I was like, what? Why did I leave that? Uh, but um, but yeah, I was, it wasn't quite as fulfilled as I wanted to be, so I, I decided to pursue something a little different.

[00:01:54] Chris Lee: So 

[00:01:55] Travis Bader: isn't that interesting? We can have everything. We can have the job that's giving you the money and it's pretty easy. Yeah. But it's not fulfilling. Yeah. And you were looking for greater fulfillment in your life, and you're like, I know. Why don't I just, just go from Frisbee golf instructor and helping people with reservations to all out special forces in the US military.

[00:02:19] Travis Bader: I mean, that, that's not usually a jump that people are like, I'm just gonna go from this marshmallow roasting activity to this mud eating activity. And, uh, how, how did that come about? What was going through your head? Um, 

[00:02:33] Chris Lee: good, good question. It was, it was kind of during that time that I was, I was at the hotel, uh, working and I, I really started to get into this, this mindset of, um, how far can I push myself?

[00:02:45] Chris Lee: Uh, how can I better myself every day? And I really started to think that. Uh, I kept, I kept repeating to myself that mediocrity is the enemy, and I wanted to combat that as hard as I could. Um, and that's when I started to, to think about maybe joining the military. I was, uh, I was a little bit older. I was 28 at the time.

[00:03:03] Chris Lee: Um, and so I got in a little bit later. But yeah, I, part of that, part of that decision making process is I, I wanted to pursue something where success was not guaranteed. I wanted to try something that I could, I could potentially give everything I had and it still not be enough. Um, that's, that's what appealed to me.

[00:03:22] Chris Lee: Uh, and so that's why I pursued, uh, kind of the, the direction that I did. 

[00:03:29] Travis Bader: So can you take me through that process? Do you have to enlist in the Army for a certain period of time before actually trying out for the green braze, or can you just say, look it, I'm, I'm gonna go straight in and see if I can, if I can cut this.

[00:03:41] Chris Lee: They, uh, so they, the US Army, um, put together a program, uh, a long time ago called the 18 X-Ray Program. So special forces guys, their moss or their jobs in the military are, are all 18 series. And so the 18 x-Ray, uh, contract is, uh, if you, if you meet certain qualifications as a civilian and say, Hey, I want to enlist.

[00:04:03] Chris Lee: This is the job I want to pursue. It's a, it's, it's them saying that they will give you an opportunity to try out. Um, and so that's what I wanted and when I spoke with a recruiter, I was like, Hey, this is kind of the direction I went ahead. And again, I was a little bit older and, and I wasn't just, you know, some, some 19 year old that saw Rambo too many times, although I have seen Rainbow too many times.

[00:04:24] Chris Lee: Yeah. Right. Uh, so he, he, he understood that I had kind of thought through the process and, and done, done my research, uh, and he was like, okay, yeah, let's, let's do that. Uh, interestingly though, uh, I had, I had a knee surgery when I was in, in eighth grade. Uh, and so when I went to meps, which is like the, the military interesting processing situation or, or whatever, uh, where they, where they do like psychological and physical, uh, exams on you to ensure that you're fit to serve the, in the military.

[00:04:55] Chris Lee: Hmm. When, when I got brought into one of the doctor's offices, uh, he was like, Hey, um, I'm, I'm excited that you want to go Special forces. I worked with a couple of those guys. They're awesome. Uh, and he is looking through my kind of medical record and he is like, hold on a second. Uh, and then he pulled a big book off the, off his shelf and he is looking at it and he is like, Hey, I'm, I'm sorry to tell you this, but because of your knee surgery when you were younger, they actually removed part of your meniscus, uh, and that, um, that disqualifies you for any kind of airborne contract, uh, which is, which is part of the 18 x-Ray contract.

[00:05:29] Chris Lee: And I was like, what are you telling me doc? He says, well, unfortunately I can't give you an 18 x-ray contract from here. Uh, and I was just devastated cuz uh, it's kidding. It's Alexa. I spent, you know, a year training up and then reading a ton of books and then working with my recruiter. Uh, and so I was, I was just pretty bummed out.

[00:05:48] Chris Lee: Um, I was like, thank you sir, I appreciate it. Uh, and he wish me luck. And I went out to my recruiter and I, and I was told him kind of what was going on. He was like, Hey, I, they won't give me an 18 x-ray contract from here. And my recruiter kind of looked at me, he was like, well, you, you could just go 11 Bravo, which is an infantryman, and hopefully pick up an 18 x-ray contract wallet basic, and mm-hmm.

[00:06:10] Chris Lee: It was a bit of a, a bit of a gamble, but I was like, okay, let's go for it. And, and that's what I did. So I, I enlisted as a, as an infantryman and, uh, it was several weeks into basic, uh, I, we were all, I remember, we were all outside, uh, as a platoon. Uh, and we were. Learning about some weapon system, and I hear one of the drill sergeants call my name and I was like, oh, you never wanna hear a drill sergeant call your name.

[00:06:37] Chris Lee: No. So, so I kinda, I was just kinda hoping that I misheard. Uh, and so I ignored it at first. Uh, and then he called a little bit louder and then I ran over to him and I was like, yes, drill sergeant. And he was like, those guys wanna go talk to you. So I look over and it was a, it was a couple of SF recruiters, they'd called me and, and a handful of other guys over and they're like, Hey, uh, do you want to try out?

[00:06:58] Chris Lee: I was like, absolutely. Where do I sign? Uh, and so that's, that's where I picked up my x-ray contract. So. 

[00:07:04] Travis Bader: Wow. There's always a way I found it doesn't matter what it is, there's always a way, whether that's finding another doctor or exactly going through a side route in order to get there if you want it enough.

[00:07:18] Travis Bader: There's always a way. The one thing I've uh, learned though, is. That sometimes you get to the final destination and you look back and you say, did the ends justify the means? Right? Yeah. Yeah. Was this a worthwhile endeavor to get to? If at first I thought, Hey, this is great, this is what I want to do. But you have to climb just an almost insurmountable mountain to get up there and you arrive all broken and battered and beaten.

[00:07:43] Travis Bader: Um, you can always do it no matter what. You can do it. But the smart people are the ones who I find who are able to look at that and say, maybe there's a smarter way to get there. Or does the ends justify the means when I, when I finally achieve my goal? Yeah. No. Did the ends justify the means for you? 

[00:08:02] Chris Lee: Uh, I am, I'm thoroughly pleased with how things worked out, uh, and awesome part, part of my story because it was somewhat difficult and kinda.

[00:08:13] Chris Lee: Uh, riddled with some uncertainty. I, I appreciate it more. And so going through selection and getting picked up, and then three years in the Q course, um, was, was a bit of a marathon. Uh, so it's like the, the qualification course is typically like a year and a half or two years, unless you're a medic. Uh, if you're a medic, they tack on another nine months plus of, of medical training and which is you, incidentally, I was voluntold to be a medic.

[00:08:39] Chris Lee: So, so, uh, so, but, uh, again, incredibly thankful for that opportunity. Um, although I'm not in the, the medical field anymore, uh, learning a lot about trauma medicine, uh, was incredibly interesting and, and fulfilling and, uh, and it was the best job on the team. Um, so I, I was, I was incredibly thankful. Uh, and looking back, my, I'm pleased with the journey and I'm pleased with kind of the difficulties that, that it was riddled with, uh, and glad I ended where I ended.

[00:09:11] Chris Lee: So, 

[00:09:12] Travis Bader: So with the, the whole medical thing always changing, they're always coming up with new best practices. You still feel like you got the, uh, the medic side kind of, kind of down pat, at least from where you were before. Cause I know when I do a first eight course, like a few weeks later, I've lo I've forgotten 

[00:09:27] Chris Lee: most of it.

[00:09:28] Chris Lee: There. There's a lot of things, even even from the time of like beginning the med course to the end, there were certain practices that were already changing, you know, within, within a year. Um, and so, yeah, a lot of that stuff is, is interesting because medicine is always trying to improve itself, uh, to make it more effective.

[00:09:46] Chris Lee: Um, but the kind of, the bread and butter, I, I still feel pretty good about, like, if somebody got shot in front of me or, uh, I roll up on a car accident, I, I still know how to put on a tourniquet and, uh, put on chest seals if I need to. And so some of those basic stuff, uh, those basic things, I, I, I've still, I've still retained.

[00:10:03] Chris Lee: I keep a med kit in my, in my truck, uh, in case I roll up on something. So, 

[00:10:08] Travis Bader: So if this all came easy peasy, if you didn't have to go through the, uh, the more difficult route to get there. And I mean it, correct me if I'm wrong, I think it's usually what, 61 weeks after sort of a pre-selection, uh, process, uh, for a Green Beret.

[00:10:24] Travis Bader: Yeah, 

[00:10:25] Chris Lee: it's, uh, yeah, go ahead. So 

[00:10:28] Travis Bader: yeah, if it all came super easy, would it hold the same level of value for you? 

[00:10:33] Chris Lee: I, I don't think so. I think, I think that's why I liked the process, and I think that's why, uh, I'll tell you a little story. So, yeah. Uh, in two, 2018, uh, my buddy Travis and I, uh, kind of on a, on a whim, he was like, Hey man, I know a guy that's climbing Kilimanjaro in Tanzania.

[00:10:53] Chris Lee: Do you want to come? And I was like, yep, let's do it. So the hell yes. Uh, uh, so we're, we're climbing and, and Kilimanjaro's is one of the. One of the highest mountains in the world. It's, it's the highest in Africa. Mm-hmm. And so if you're gonna hit all seven, you have to hit Kilimanjaro at some point. But it's not a very technical climb.

[00:11:09] Chris Lee: It's really, it's really just a walk. Uh, there's no like, harnessing in or, or like ice climbing or anything like that. Uh, but the altitude will get to you. It's like 19,000 plus feet. Um, but so as, as we're, you know, hiking, it takes several days to get up and primarily because of the, the acclimatization process of, of the altitude.

[00:11:32] Chris Lee: So we were at base camp, it was the night before we were gonna go summit. Uh, and Travis and I were hanging out just drinking coffee or whatever, and we hear like a base camp, this guy just yelling. And he had, and we were, we kind of both perked up and we look over and he had both fist, you know, thrust in the air.

[00:11:49] Chris Lee: And he, he was just stoked and we could hear him. He was like, I did it. I summited the mountain. Uh, and he and I, and Travis and I kind of both looked at each other because, uh, Without knowing it. Like he and I were both kind of thinking the same thing, which was what's the next mountain? Yes. We hadn't even summited Kilimanjaro yet, but we were al already thinking of like, what's, what's the next adventure we're gonna go on?

[00:12:14] Chris Lee: Because I think he and I, we really enjoy the struggle. We really enjoy the climb, whatever, whatever the mountain may be, whether literal or metaphorical. Um, that's the process. And the part that we like the most is, is like the journey. Uh, and, and the summit was great, don't get me wrong. It was, it was phenomenal.

[00:12:33] Chris Lee: Uh, but, but the, the struggle to get there is kind of what we liked the most, 

[00:12:40] Travis Bader: you know? It. One thing that I, I think about often. So you've got a very strong social media feed and you can see a marked uptick at one point in your social media where it really kind of, uh, took off a lot of very positive, uh, messages and good information in there.

[00:13:00] Travis Bader: There's gonna be links in this podcast here, social media, so people can see you and find and follow. Awesome, awesome. Yeah. Um, but with that, there's always the keep pushing, keep striving, don't stop, grind hard, right? Yeah. Next mountain, keep going. Um, I don't see a whole ton of sit down, um, relax. Right, right.

[00:13:25] Travis Bader: Look at your accomplishments and appreciate them. Um, and that there's a very difficult dichotomy in there because when you're sitting down and relaxing, you're not accomplishing and you don't have that next thing that you can then sit down and relax and look back at. How do you, how do you square that one?

[00:13:42] Travis Bader: Because I know a lot of people can get really stuck in the grind of trying to achieve and doesn't matter what that mountain is. I mean, even, even Everest, if you summited that a few years ago, uh, it's taller now. Slightly taller, right? So, I mean, just, just the way it moves, you better go do it again. 

[00:14:05] Chris Lee: Uh, that, that's a, that's a good question.

[00:14:07] Chris Lee: Um, I've, I've found that like, rest days, uh, from like working out, I hate rest days and hey. Yeah. And, uh, part of that is probably like, uh, maybe my personality or, or maybe part of the indoctrination of being on the teams and stuff of like, you, you should be doing something. Uh, sitting, sitting around is like, what are you doing?

[00:14:30] Travis Bader: Um, got time to leave. You got time 

[00:14:31] Chris Lee: to clean. Right, exactly. It's like, but pick up a broom. Start sweeping, right? Yeah. Um, So to answer your question, kind of where I am now, uh, and how I, how I start to now enjoy a little bit more of like the process by, by like sitting and observing and resting a little bit.

[00:14:49] Chris Lee: I, I've outsourced the stuff that I hate doing, um, or that I'm not very good at. Uh, and so, uh, so kind of like my, my whole social media thing, it, it blew up, but by accident, I'm, I'm like, not trying to be an influencer or anything like that, but, uh, I was, I wanted to do coaching, uh, after I got out of the military.

[00:15:12] Chris Lee: And so I started, I started putting together like little videos on TikTok or Instagram or whatever. Um, but they, like, looking back, uh, looking back, I think I was, I was just kind of half-assing it to say I did it to, to feel as though I accomplished something. Uh, but in actuality it was, it wasn't a hundred percent effort.

[00:15:33] Chris Lee: And, and so, Uh, randomly, uh, this kid, uh, reached out to me. He was like, Hey, man, I'm a video editor. I really like your message. Uh, would you be interested in maybe, uh, working together? I could edit some, some videos for you. I was like, sure, why not? Uh, and because it's something that he really enjoyed and it's not, it's something that I didn't particularly care for.

[00:15:53] Chris Lee: Uh, and so we, we worked together, uh, recorded some things and a couple of them took off, uh, and, and that started to build the audience. And I was like, oh, that was worthwhile, uh, outsourcing the thing that, uh, I'm not very good at, or, or. Don't particularly enjoy to somebody that is passionate about it, uh, has paid dividends.

[00:16:12] Chris Lee: And so I started to do that, uh, with some other things within my business too, and it's starting to pay off as well. Uh, which, so what does that mean? It is now allowing me more time to, to yeah. Sit and, and kind of soak it up a little bit and focus on the things that I'm passionate about, uh, such as like the one-on-one coaching and, and, you know, being able to spend time with, with the family and, and stuff like that.

[00:16:35] Chris Lee: Because I think there's a big difference between just being busy and being productive. Mm-hmm. And so I'm, I'm more concerned with productivity, uh, even if that's, uh, even if I have to outsource some of it. Um, because grinding all day, I, I respect that as long as it's productive. If it's just doing it to be busy.

[00:16:56] Chris Lee: You're just spinning wheels, you're going going a hundred miles an hour in nowhere. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. So, so that's kind of been my, my philosophy and it's been a learning experience for sure, uh, through this process. 

[00:17:08] Travis Bader: Yeah. I'm still learning that one myself. I mean, we've got some fantastic people on board, on the Silvercore team, and, uh, in the early days it was, uh, uh, quite a learning process when you bring people on board or people to help out.

[00:17:23] Travis Bader: And then essentially you have to become a manager yourself, a manager of the projects and of these people. And the biggest thing that I always look for is people that can self-manage themself who don't need somebody over their shoulder. Cause I'm not a micromanager. And I mean, truth be told, I'm not, I'm not a great manager because that's not where my passion is.

[00:17:42] Travis Bader: I can do it, but I'd much rather have people who are passionate about what they do, bring them on board so they can do things that I'm. I'm not capable of doing at their level. So that Right. That was a huge learning part for me as well. Mm-hmm. Um, within the Green Beret training that you did, the attrition rate, I mean, not everybody makes it on that goes in, right, right, right.

[00:18:10] Travis Bader: Were you able to kinda look around at the get-go and say, yeah, I got this, or look around and say, I don't think that person's gonna quite make it. Were, were these things identifiable to you at, at day one? 

[00:18:24] Chris Lee: Um, that's a good question as well. I, I think, cuz when I, when I showed up to selection, I was, I was an 18 x-ray at that point.

[00:18:34] Chris Lee: Uh, I had picked up the contract at Basic, uh, and I was, I was there to try to learn and offer as much as I could. Um, so the, the 18 x-rays are kind of known for. Not being very smart on Army stuff, which makes sense cuz they haven't been in the army very long. Um, sure. But they're, they're pretty strong, so they're the workhorses.

[00:18:56] Chris Lee: Uh, and so when it comes to like, portions of selection, like team week and stuff, um, the x-rays are like eager to work. Like, yeah, put the load on my back, I'll, I'll carry it forever. Um, and so, and so, um, I don't know, it's kind of word vomity trying to, to answer your question, but like, I, I did go in a little bit older and so I, I had been around people before, not necessarily in that setting, but, uh, there were some guys that, um, yeah, I'm like, man, I, there's something about him that's, I don't wanna work with him.

[00:19:30] Chris Lee: Right. And so, and, and selection is, is. Yes, it's physical, but it's primarily how well can you work on a team? How well, uh, I mean, that's a big part of it. And then how well can you operate in complete, uh, isolation? So like, like the land nav portion, you're, you're on your own in the woods in the dark. Um, how can, how well do you handle that?

[00:19:53] Chris Lee: Um, being introverted, I, I appreciated Land A was probably my favorite part. Cause I didn't have to, I didn't have to rely on anybody else. It was just on me. Uh, which Right. Which I enjoyed a great deal. Uh, but also like team week and stuff, it was, there were guys that, um, man, how do I say it? Uh, maybe showed up with ego, uh mm-hmm.

[00:20:15] Chris Lee: Um, and, and some of that may be coming from kind of where they were coming from within the army. Um, I don't know. They, there were guys you could tell that like, I, I'm just not sure that you're. I'm not sure you're your team guy material. Um, they're physically you're capable, but I, I don't wanna work with you and I'm not sure anybody else would wanna work with you either.

[00:20:39] Chris Lee: Um, and so that, that costs some people, I think some spots in selection for sure. 

[00:20:45] Travis Bader: I've seen that show up sort of as a false confidence. I mean, some people, um, some people say, oh, look at that person's ego when they're just a very confident, competent individual. And that confidence might intimidate somebody who's not as competent or confident and they say, oh, his ego's outta control, or her ego's outta control.

[00:21:05] Travis Bader: And there's a difference between that and this false confidence of this bravado. Yeah. Ego up here, but the actual ability level is may, maybe not, not where it should. Yeah, 

[00:21:19] Chris Lee: I, I think that's, that's a great way to put it, is that kind of false confidence and, and bravado. I, I definitely remember seeing a lot of that.

[00:21:28] Travis Bader: I, I guess so, so, um, when these, when these people who didn't make it, that you probably saw from the get-go not being able to make it, uh, were they kind of relieved, like secretly relieved, outwardly disappointed, secretly relieved? 

[00:21:46] Chris Lee: I th good question that there were guys for sure that, um, that they either bowed out or were non-selected and, and they would say things like, yeah, well I di I don't think that life was for me anyway.

[00:22:05] Chris Lee: Um, sure. Which is kind of like a, in some cases that might be the case, like, Not everybody wants to be a Green Beret, uh mm-hmm. And, and sometimes when you try out it's because somebody expected you to, or maybe somebody else is putting their goals on you. Hmm. And so, so in some cases, I think fewer than, uh, than what is actually, uh, projected, but like in some cases that is the case.

[00:22:30] Chris Lee: The lifestyle isn't for them. Mm-hmm. Um, but in other cases, I think, uh, when they say that it's really them trying to comfort themselves for not making the cut or for quitting, uh, quitting is, it happens. Uh, and, and people bow out and, and they get to a point where like, I just don't want to ruck anymore, or I don't, I don't want to walk through the woods alone anymore, or I can't do this exercise.

[00:22:57] Chris Lee: And so Yeah. When they, when they drop, uh, it's like, yeah, I don't want the lifestyle. Mm-hmm. Maybe, or maybe. Maybe you just had a moment of weakness, you know, in this particular exercise. 

[00:23:08] Travis Bader: Um, and the, the reason I'm asking these questions, and I want to concentrate more just to try and have some chronological sureness to this.

[00:23:16] Travis Bader: I would like to concentrate more a little bit about your time in the Army, but I'm asking these questions cuz they will relate to your coaching company as well. Yeah. Um, but you know, people who are quitting the term, quitting has such a negative connotation to it when in fact it's probably the best thing that they could be doing for themselves and for the team as well, is by maybe moving towards something that's more desirable for them.

[00:23:43] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm And that's the difficult dichotomy that I think a lot of people have when they look at, let's say in the social media, gotta grind, gotta go here, here's the next, uh, It's being able to identify what is important for the individual and how that individual will be happy in their life moving forward, and be able to affect those around them in a positive way as well.

[00:24:06] Travis Bader: And if that means moving themselves, themselves out of one situation, which isn't really helping themselves or others into one that's more desirable, quitting one and trying something else, or moving towards something else, I, I guess that's all part of our, our, our journey here. But I, I find that, uh, the mental health side of things, if somebody goes in for something like green bra selection and they fail or they quit, that's gotta loom heavy on their head.

[00:24:38] Travis Bader: Similar in a way that maybe some of the people that you coach are moving towards something and you look at them and just identify. This really isn't in your personality or makeup. Is this really something you want to do? 

[00:24:51] Chris Lee: Right. No, I, and that's actually where I start with my coaching is, uh, because I, I want to avoid traveling down a journey towards a goal and then partway down, yet you realize, oh, this, this actually doesn't align with my value system.

[00:25:06] Chris Lee: This isn't really the kind of person I want to be. And so, so my, my first session with folks is always, all right, tell me who you want to become. And I, and I focus in a couple different areas like mental, physical, emotional, social, and financial. And my thought is if you can kind of tackle each of those areas, you can level up holistically.

[00:25:26] Chris Lee: Cuz it, if you, if you lack discipline in one area, it kind of bleeds over into all the others. Um, and so I address each of those. Again, session one is, all right, tell me who you want to become in five years. Like, what kind of man or woman do you want to be in each of those areas? Because that's the value system on which we can stack all of your goals, because that, that aligns with who you want to be and not what somebody else wants you to be.

[00:25:52] Travis Bader: No. Do you ever ask them why, 

[00:25:55] Chris Lee: why they want to be a certain person or? Yeah. Uh, sometimes I'll have to draw out like, all right, where, where is that coming from? Like a, again, we want to avoid having those, uh, goals being, uh, forced on you, whether you know it or not, by, by something that is outside of, of who you are.

[00:26:17] Chris Lee: Um, whether it's like, cuz not everybody wants a, a Corvette and a mansion, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, and sometimes people start chasing it because they're expected to. To want it. Uh, but then all they really wanted was, you know, a cabin in the woods and some isolation, you 

[00:26:34] Travis Bader: know? Yeah. Covais. My kids would say, Hey, you know what?

[00:26:38] Travis Bader: Car is totally overrated. I guess it's some quote from Hot Rod. Uh, um, yeah, the, the getting to the why and then being able to, uh, help the people get to where they want to be. Mm-hmm. I would imagine going through what you've gone through makes it really easy for you to be able to quickly identify those who will be able to push hard and maybe those whose aspirations might be a little bit different.

[00:27:05] Travis Bader: Yeah. What, what were some of the most difficult things that you had to encounter through your selection and time as, as a Green Beret that. If you're able to look back and tell young Chris to kind of help prepare him for, you'd be able to maybe offer a little bit of advice. 

[00:27:24] Chris Lee: Sure. The, I think the hardest part of the whole Q course was how long it was.

[00:27:31] Chris Lee: Um, and I had to wake up every day for, you know, for three years and, and say, I still want this, you know. Um, so it's selection is as cliche as this sounds. Selection was the easy part because it was, you know, a couple weeks and then you're done. But then, but then you have, you know, the marathon of the Q course and, and all the phases.

[00:27:57] Chris Lee: Uh, and uh, when looking at that as a whole, it can be rather daunting, um, because it's, I, because essentially you could put in all the time, and still at the very end at Robin Sage, they say, we don't want you, you know, Robin Sage is the final, uh, field training exercise to, to put, put all of your training to use in like a, a, a big scenario.

[00:28:24] Chris Lee: Uh, and and I, I was at Robin Sage with a handful of guys that didn't make the cut and Wow. After they spent years in the Q course. So it's like, that is, that's tough. Uh mm-hmm. And so, so, uh, but that, that process has really shaped how I do things with, with my coaching is, alright, start with the identity.

[00:28:46] Chris Lee: Who do you want to be? In my case, I wanna be a Green Beret. Uh, okay. So what's the goal? I want to, I want to achieve these things while on an oda once I get there. Uh, okay, so, so what does that mean about today? Uh, well that means I have to adjust the way I exercise, adjust the way I eat. Prioritize sleep.

[00:29:04] Chris Lee: You know, like that goal and that identity down the road. Um, had a, um, it had a, a direct effect on, on my daily actions because I knew what I wanted and knew what I was striving for. And that's, that's kind of the model on which I, I base my whole coaching is figure out who you want to be, where you want to be.

[00:29:24] Chris Lee: All right. And then I'll help you figure out how to get there. Cuz the Army's pretty good at teaching you how to backwards plan. And so, and so that's, that's kind of what we do is, all right, tell me the identity you want to accomplish and then we'll figure out what we gotta do today to 

[00:29:38] Travis Bader: make that happen.

[00:29:39] Travis Bader: I like the concept of prioritizing sleep. Can you talk more on that? 

[00:29:45] Chris Lee: Sleep. I, I sometimes joke with people that I train nine hours a day. Um, and what I mean by that is I spend an hour in the gym and then I, I try to get eight hours of sleep. Uh, and it's, it's that important, uh, sleep is one of the. Most, um, underutilized, uh, performance enhancing activity you can do.

[00:30:07] Chris Lee: Mm-hmm. Uh, it is like sleep is so important that like muscle growth and, and mental growth, like being able to recall things, uh, like sleep is incorporated into all of that. And, and if you don't get good quality sleep, uh, you are really just hamstringing yourself. Uh, un unfortunately though, sleep is one of the first things that you, you start to, um, put on the back burner or, or neglect, uh, when things get busy, uh, which is unfortunate because, uh, if you go long enough, With, uh, low quality sleep, or you start actually becoming sleep deprived, it's the equivalent of walking around drunk.

[00:30:49] Chris Lee: Uh, and so like, how effective can you really be, uh, when you're inebriated, uh, due to lack of sleep? You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. So, uh, unfortunately that was a lesson learned a little bit too late. Um, but I'm, I'm definitely trying to make it more of a priority, uh, moving forward. I, I, I use the, uh, the aura ring, uh, which is a sleep tracker.

[00:31:11] Chris Lee: Uh, and the reason I got it is because I, I believe that what gets measured gets managed. And so being able to like, Accurately track kind of my sleep. Not only schedule, but like quality of sleep, uh, helps me adjust my, my daily schedule in such a way that I can, I can try to make that more of a priority.

[00:31:33] Travis Bader: What, what are your current priorities? Uh, 

[00:31:37] Chris Lee: in general or for sleep? 

[00:31:39] Travis Bader: Well, I guess in general. Yeah. 

[00:31:42] Chris Lee: Um, so my, I, I'll kind of run through. My goals and my identities that I'm shooting for. So, so mentally, I, I am a constant learner. That's the identity that I'm striving for. And so a lot of that was, I used to wrap up that with the number of books I could read in a year.

[00:32:04] Chris Lee: I was always shooting for like a book a week, so hopefully Wow. 52 books a, a year. Uh, and after a while I, I really started getting wrapped around the axle with the number of books I was reading. And I've taken a step back and, and reexamined that identity piece. I am a constant learner, whereas retaining information has become more of the priority.

[00:32:25] Chris Lee: And so the number of books is less important, but rather the quality, uh, of books that I read and also the, the amount of information I retain from 'em. So that's my, my mental, uh, my mental. Physically, uh, I look good naked and I'm hard to kill. That's kind of the identity that I'm shooting for. I love it.

[00:32:44] Chris Lee: So, uh, my, my thought behind that, and some of that is like residual from, from Army, you know, like, try not to die, right? Yeah. Uh, but I think there's something to be said like when you, when you hop outta the shower and you're looking in the mirror, if you're proud of what you see, that, that is a testament to your, your daily actions and habits over the past, you know, years.

[00:33:08] Chris Lee: Uh, fitness isn't something you can cram for. It's something that, that requires long-term planning and, and discipline. Uh, and so, so the look good naked part is, part of that is like, all right, the look good naked is, it's, it's funny to say, but it's really just like, am I disciplined? Am I consistent? Mm-hmm.

[00:33:27] Chris Lee: Um, the hard to kill part. Uh, again, part of that is, is really like. Being able to withstand whatever life throws at me, whether that's, you know, motor vehicle accidents or, or just disease in general. The healthier you are, the harder it is for life to kill you. Uh, and so, so that's, that's kind of what I'm shooting for, uh, emotionally.

[00:33:49] Chris Lee: Uh, I am the calm, calmest man in the room. That's, that's what I'm striving by. That's the identity that I want to be. And primarily because I think in moments of chaos, it's the people that remain calm, they're the ones that are able to solve the problem. Uh, and that's, and that's what I, I want to, I want to try to be that guy.

[00:34:10] Chris Lee: Uh, if, if chaos shows up or, or a situation arises, that is incredibly stressful. I wanna be able to want, I wanna be the one that takes a breath and starts solving the problem and working through a solution. Mm. Um, So those are, those are a couple of the, the identities and goals that I'm, I'm striving for.

[00:34:28] Chris Lee: And, and those are important to me because, uh, uh, again, it's again, going through my training, having that identity in the, in the, in the distance that I'm aiming for is, is what dictates my daily actions. And I'm, I've tried to establish, uh, those similar identities to, to help dictate what I do on a daily basis.

[00:34:51] Travis Bader: Now, I think you mentioned you had a. 

[00:34:53] Chris Lee: Yes. Uh, I've got, uh, two daughters. Uh, they keep me on my toes for sure. So a 16 year old and a, uh, almost nine year old. Uh, wow. And they, they're a handful for sure. 

[00:35:04] Travis Bader: So driving in just about nine years old, getting, getting close to high school 

[00:35:08] Chris Lee: there. Yeah. So it's, uh, they, they're, they're pretty incredible.

[00:35:14] Chris Lee: Uh, and my, my nine year old, I brought her to, to jiu-jitsu one day. Uh, I, it was one Saturday I had her and I was like, Hey, come, come watch me train, uh, in the dojo. And she's like, okay. Uh, and she's, she's sitting there watching me and I'm, I'm just a white belt. So I'm getting smashed most of the, most of the practice anyway, but.

[00:35:37] Chris Lee: I, I can kind of hold my own. I have a, a wrestling BA background and stuff, but, uh, when it was all said and done, she, she was like, you looked ridiculous out there. Like, thanks honey. Thanks kiddo. Appreciate it. I'll try better 

[00:35:52] Travis Bader: next time. So love 

[00:35:53] Chris Lee: the support. Yeah. Great. She, she's a savage, so, 

[00:35:57] Travis Bader: well, you get unfiltered honesty, which is, you couldn't ask her much more.

[00:36:00] Chris Lee: Yeah, I, I do appreciate the feedback, so at least she's gonna shoot me straight, so. 

[00:36:04] Travis Bader: Exactly. You know, that, um, do you follow a similar plan with your family in raising your children and family, uh, goals and settings? Is that something that, uh, you have in place? Uh, 

[00:36:18] Chris Lee: I try to, I have found, uh, and maybe.

[00:36:21] Chris Lee: Particularly with daughters. Um, but if it's not their idea, it's not a good idea. So, so I have to try to like socially engineer situations where my ideas, uh, seem as though they were their ideas. If, if that makes sense. 

[00:36:39] Travis Bader: I've got a daughter and a son and, you know, I can kind of relate to that a little bit.

[00:36:44] Travis Bader: But, um, and the reason I ask, you know, I've, I've always taken the approach of, uh, doing similar goal setting and planning with the family and with the kids. And what is it you're interested in now? I mean, they don't have to have it figured out for the future. Sure. I mean, how stressful would that be? I still don't have things figured out.

[00:37:06] Travis Bader: Right. And most people I know are, will reinvent themselves a number of times throughout life, but Absolutely. But to be able to kind of identify your core values and what's valuable to you, and add one person, say, how heartless are you, you, you're, you're going to, you want to put together essentially a business plan for your family and for your kids.

[00:37:26] Travis Bader: And I look at 'em and say, well, how heartless are you to not, not want to plan these things, to not want to just leave it up to chance. What might happen might happen for them. And I, and I, I think there's a general. Uh, idea in society that having plans and being prepared is, um, is very analytical and lacks heart.

[00:37:49] Travis Bader: And I, I've never seen that. I, I think if you care for something deeply, then you're gonna use that heart to put a plan in place so it's protected and it's got the best possible ability to thrive and survive in the future. And, uh, I think, uh, the people that I've explained that to have kind of come around to my way of thinking either that or they're just playing nice to my face, but 

[00:38:13] Chris Lee: now I, I think you're spot on.

[00:38:15] Chris Lee: Uh, and, um, if you don't. If you don't dictate, uh, the direction of your life, life will just happen to you. And then you're just on your heels reacting to it for the rest of your life. Mm-hmm. And so, yeah, I I think you're a hundred percent correct and, uh, talking specifically to, to my, my older daughter is like, yeah, what, what kind of woman do you wanna become?

[00:38:37] Chris Lee: Like what, what kind of person do you want to be? Um, because that's, that is important. Otherwise, otherwise, like your value system just kind of, it just kind of happens because you're reacting to life. And, um, I'm gonna butcher this, but I'll try to paraphrase it, but it, I, I heard a quote a while ago that, um, ethics and, and morals are needed long before the moment of crisis shows up.

[00:39:04] Chris Lee: Like you need to have kind of those rules and guidelines kind of in place, that value system already in place. So when, when that morally questionable situation arises, you already have a, a. A guide, uh, a guideline to follow. You're not trying to figure out, all right, what kind of person am I gonna be in the moment of, of, of crisis?

[00:39:25] Chris Lee: Um, and so, yeah, I, I totally agree with you. I think dictating how your life goes is, is, uh, significantly better than reacting to 

[00:39:33] Travis Bader: life. Yeah. And you know, I, I remember hearing a couple of politicians, I forget where this is going back a number of years, and, um, and the term situational ethics came up. Yeah.

[00:39:45] Travis Bader: And another guy says, what's that? What situational ethics? It's like, well, you know, I mean, well your ethics will change based on what the situation is because there might be different. Like, no, you have your ethics and you apply them to the situation and then it just makes everything so easy. Right? It's, it's so easy to make a decision.

[00:40:03] Travis Bader: I know what my value system is. I know where my ethics lie. I know what's on the outside of my boundaries, what's in the no-go zone. I know what's in the go zone. If the situation falls in the go zone, we go, if it's in the no-go zone, problem solved. Exactly. 

[00:40:17] Chris Lee: Yeah. No, I, I totally agree with that. Absolutely.

[00:40:21] Travis Bader: Um, so. I'm looking at your bookshelf in behind, and that was one of the things I was gonna ask you about too, because you're a voracious reader. For, for my own edification, I would love to know how you're working on the retaining part of what you read. Because for me, sometimes some things just stick.

[00:40:44] Travis Bader: Numbers tend to stick names, usually not quotes. For some, for some reason, some quotes will just bang stick in my head. Mm-hmm. Uh, but so often I find myself just sitting there like trying to recall something, trying to get something and I, I, and my God, I know there's something, uh, deep or impactful or that I thought I should know it, but the, the recall just isn't great.

[00:41:06] Travis Bader: What are you doing for that? 

[00:41:08] Chris Lee: Uh, so I, I still, I, I actually consume a lot of books through Audible, um, cuz it's, it's easier for me, like if I'm working around the house or on, on a drive or whatever, it's. I just consume a lot that way. Um, but in regards to the retention, uh, instead of trying to totally absorb every paragraph, every chapter of the whole book, I, I really am just looking for the one thing, uh, whatever the one thing is in a book that will make the book worthwhile.

[00:41:41] Chris Lee: Uh, whatever, you know, $15 I paid for the book, what's the one piece of information I can glean from it that will make it, uh, worth reading? And so that's what I try to focus on. And, and the books that I really enjoy, I'll re-listen to or reread, um, because there's probably more than just the one thing.

[00:41:58] Chris Lee: There's probably a one thing the second time I read it, uh, whatever that might be. Um, and so I, I focus less on, on trying to, you know, take notes on, on every chapter, but rather like, all right. If, if I had to, if I had to pitch this to somebody else, uh, and I do that a lot of that of like, Hey, hey buddy, you should definitely check out this book.

[00:42:20] Chris Lee: Uh mm-hmm. If I had to pitch it to somebody else, what's the one thing I would say, uh, would, would, was making the book worthwhile? Uh, and that's what I try to focus on. 

[00:42:30] Travis Bader: Which books particularly stand out to you, which are ones that you've had to go through a couple of times because there's some information that you've found valuable?

[00:42:39] Chris Lee: Sure. Um, my absolute favorite book is Atlas Shrugged by Iron Rand Anne Rand. Yeah. She, so she is my favorite philosopher, uh, if it's hard to see, but I, I have a lot of her stuff, uh, on my shelf. Um, so I, I try to listen to Atlas Shrugged at least once a year. It's like un audible. It's about 52 hours long. Mm.

[00:43:04] Chris Lee: So, so I listened to it at like one and a half times speed to shorten it, but, uh, but, uh, it's. It's my favorite book. Um, I think primarily, at least this time I listen to it. It's, it's because it gives you permission to be proud of the work you do, uh, and not, not try to invoke a, a false sense of modesty or, uh, feel bad about being really good at something.

[00:43:28] Chris Lee: Um, and ah, and taking pride in the fact that, uh, you're good at something and it should be okay to say that out loud. Uh, and, and it's okay for, for you to acknowledge your own achievement and your own ability and not try to hide it. Um, I think it's important for people to, to take pride in their work and take pride in, in the kind of people that they are.

[00:43:54] Chris Lee: Uh, I think work, uh, how you do anything is how you do everything. And so work is really just a reflection of your character on some, on some level. Mm-hmm. Um, uh, like the. The phrase it's good enough for government work. I, I used to hate that phrase, so, because I'm like, no, it's, I mean, yes, I, back when I was in the Army, yes, I worked for the government, but that's Sure the work is a reflection of me, not the government.

[00:44:22] Chris Lee: Uh, and so I, I used to hate it when people say that. Um, so anyway, that's Atlas Shrugged. Is, is definitely up there. Um, I'm gonna take a quick peek at my, my shelf here. Uh, 48 Laws of Power by Robert Green. That's phenomenal. Um, some other, uh, self-improvement books would be like Atomic Habits, um, by James Clear, uh, unscripted by MJ demarcos is an excellent finance book.

[00:44:52] Chris Lee: Um, thinking Grow Rich is great. Uh, Napoleon Hill. So, yeah, I've, I've got a couple, so if, if you are looking for book recommendations, I, I could probably compile a list for you. 

[00:45:03] Travis Bader: Okay, sounds good. You know, I remember had, uh, Atlas shrugged on, uh, the bookshelf as a kid growing up, and I picked it up a number of times I was gonna read it and my father kept saying, ah, you don't wanna read anything from her.

[00:45:14] Travis Bader: And I, I have no, I have no idea what was in there, but apparently he had some strong opinions on, on it, and I don't even know why it was on our bookshelf, if that's the case. 

[00:45:24] Chris Lee: Uh, she, she has been pretty divisive, uh, throughout, uh, her, her time as an, as an author and philosopher. Uh, and I, I'll probably catch some, some heat just for calling her a philosopher, but, uh, but that's okay.

[00:45:39] Chris Lee: Uh, 

[00:45:40] Travis Bader: well, you know, particularly I know a lot of high achievers and particularly those who, uh, work on teams or work together with the teams, uh, pride. That's one of the more difficult things, and I've struggled with that myself. Someone will say, oh wow, look at these great things you've done. And I'll deflect say, well, yeah, but I've got, I've got a great team.

[00:46:03] Travis Bader: I've got some great people. And it's all so true. And I truly believe that, um, for me, just to say thank you and move on is something that I'm actually working on. Right. Not try and make an excuse, not try and, um, downplay it. Or I always, I always personally feel the need to recognize everyone else who assisted me in being where I am, because I don't personally look at my achievements as anything super great.

[00:46:32] Travis Bader: And I know others who are high achievers that think the same way. And you're saying it's important to be proud? 

[00:46:41] Chris Lee: I, I think so. Uh, and, and I'm the same way. And I, I still do that as like, uh, I deflect and say no as, as definitely a team effort. Uh, whatever. Um, but, and it's true and, and a hundred percent true, absolutely.

[00:46:54] Chris Lee: But it, it is important to acknowledge that your, um, your ability to produce excellence, uh, is, is a thing of value. Uh, and you should acknowledge that and, and you should take pride in that. And, and I think, I think if that was more ingrained in people, like being proud of, of actual excellence, being proud of like actual achievement in one's life, uh, would, would probably make more people pursue excellence and try to be excellent in, in the things that they do.

[00:47:30] Chris Lee: Um, and, um, yeah, so I, I, yeah, I think, I think being proud of the things that you, you do, uh, is a good motivator, uh, for you to, to try to be excellent in the things that you pursue. 

[00:47:44] Travis Bader: I was always raised very much to the contrary in that if you, if you're, if things are going well, you better not advertise it.

[00:47:52] Travis Bader: You better not be proud about it and, uh, better downplay it and, right. It's just, just a, just a weird, weird way of doing things. But it brings me back to your, uh, what you're saying earlier about you haven't even summited the mountain yet and you're thinking about where the next one is, right? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:48:10] Travis Bader: You haven't had a chance to even celebrate the achievement of what you've worked so hard for and you're looking for the next journey or adventure or challenge. Yeah. Celebr and I, and I find that a lot of people, myself included, will fall victim to that, and it's something that I work really hard on, is to try and celebrate achievements when they come up and say, we work damn hard.

[00:48:34] Travis Bader: We got there. Here's what we learned. Now let's celebrate and. Recoup and maybe quick rest, and then what's the next goal? Yeah. How important is that, do you feel? Is it celebrating the achievements? 

[00:48:49] Chris Lee: I, I think, I think it is important and, and kind of being on that mountain, uh, and looking back, uh, it, it did make me realize like being present, uh, is, is an important part of life.

[00:49:02] Chris Lee: Uh, and whether that's, uh, to celebrate achievement or to to deal with grief, um, being present in the moment, um, is pretty vital. Um, so, so yeah. But I, I think, I think it's very possible to couple that with, uh, looking for the next adventure. Um, uh, so

[00:49:27] Chris Lee: I, I was a green bere in the United States Army, which is, uh, something I'm incredibly proud of. Uh, I, it, it wasn't easy. Uh, and so, I, I acknowledge that, that that was kind of, uh, a cool thing that I did in my life, but I, but I also don't want that to be the where I peak, right? I want it to be just a chapter in my book.

[00:49:49] Chris Lee: Um, so the same friend Travis, uh, he and I have a, a game. It's like, all right, who can be the most interesting man? And, and it's, it's kind of like, I call it the Jimmy Fallon test. So if you ever go on the, on the Jimmy Fallon show and you're sitting there talking with him, uh, what, what are you gonna talk about?

[00:50:08] Chris Lee: How are you gonna be interesting? Uh, how are you gonna be an interesting guest? And I. Ideally, I want to get to the point where, um, my military history, uh, is, is just part of my story. It's not like the whole story. Mm-hmm. Um, it's something that I'm incredibly proud of again, but, uh, I want it to be like, oh yeah, I, I was in the Army, uh, a couple years ago, so don't forget that.

[00:50:32] Travis Bader: Yeah. This Travis guy sounds like a pretty cool person. Great name. He's, 

[00:50:36] Chris Lee: he's right. He's, he's, and he hates when I say this, but he is the smartest guy I know for sure. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, he's a good guy for sure. 

[00:50:47] Travis Bader: You know, maybe aside from a couple of my friends, I'd say most of my friends are, are definitely smarter than myself.

[00:50:53] Travis Bader: And I, I like, I like the fact that I can hang around with people who bring so much more to the table or who can bring, who are able to assist me in areas where I may be deficient. Yeah. Absolutely. And I guess speaking of that, what areas in yourself cuz are, are you looking towards, what books are you looking to read to try and fill some of the gaps of where you recognize that you could use some extra work on?

[00:51:17] Chris Lee: Sure. Uh, so this new adventure that I'm on is, is being a business owner and, and kinda, uh, not, not working for the government. Mm-hmm. Uh, that has been an incredibly interesting learning process. It's, it's definitely a, a new adventure. It's not jumping out of airplanes, but it's definitely keeping me on my toes.

[00:51:39] Chris Lee: And so in, in that regard, there's so much that I don't know that I don't know, uh mm-hmm. And so ev every day something comes up it's like, oh, I didn't even know that was a thing. I should probably, I should probably look into that. So, yeah. Uh, and, and so that's, that's kind of been exciting, uh, and. And some of, so to answer your question, some of the things that I, I've had to work on is, uh, I'm, I'm definitely an introvert.

[00:52:04] Chris Lee: Uh, I could, I could sit in my house alone all weekend and not speak to another person and be 100% fine the whole time. And, and I'm actually relatively shy, uh, speaking in front of people. Uh, and so, uh, doing things like this is, is great for me because it, it kind of pushes me, uh, out of my comfort zone. Um, and it's, and it's fun to connect with people, but, uh, it's so learning how to articulate things and, and speak in such a way that people understand what I'm saying.

[00:52:36] Chris Lee: And, uh, and I'm not stuttering the whole time, uh mm-hmm. Uh, and then also, um, being on phone calls, uh, not just with clients, but with people that are interested in potentially working with me. Mm-hmm. That's, that's exhausting to me. And so learning how to, um, And build in time throughout the day that, uh, as I'm on the phone, uh, getting to know strangers, essentially, uh, building in times that I, that I could run to the gym, which is in my garage and, and bang out, you know, a set of bench press or something to, to kind of mm-hmm.

[00:53:10] Chris Lee: Um, uh, decompressor or whatever the case is. Um, so this whole journey has been a kind of a learning process and something that I'm, I'm trying to, uh, improve on in all areas. So, you 

[00:53:24] Travis Bader: know, fellow past podcast guest, Brad Brooks, he owns the company called Our Galley. Um, and I look at him and like, he's sharp as a whip.

[00:53:35] Travis Bader: He is athletic and he is, uh, successful in his business and outgoing. And he says, same thing. He says, I'm an introvert, right about himself, right? And, uh, I'm, I look at myself, I'm, I'm thinking like, what am I an introvert extrovert? And he says, well, I'll tell you what, if. If you go into a group situation and that gives you energy, you're probably an extrovert.

[00:53:58] Travis Bader: If you go into a group situation and you feel drained at the end of it, you're probably an introvert. And I'm like, okay, well under that sort of a definition, I'm a hundred percent an introvert. You know, the funny thing he says, I'm talking with other influencers, or create content creators and people that are out there in the social media field or putting their face out there.

[00:54:20] Travis Bader: And he says, by and large, all of them are the same and they're all introverts. And and I find that really, really odd that all of these different introverts will get out there and they'll put their face and put their voice out there. And I'm wondering if they're doing it for sort of the same reasons as you've articulated.

[00:54:37] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. Which are similar to the reasons why I do it. I want to bring value to the audience. I wanna bring value to the guest. And it's a challenge for myself to push myself into these new situations with new people. And what a great way to connect with other positive, like-minded individuals. Like that's, that's the whole, whole purpose here.

[00:54:58] Travis Bader: And I've, I've also noticed that the guests of the podcasts have, uh, begun networking. There's the people that have been on past podcasts that are, uh, bringing each other up and embarking on endeavors that are helping others, as are the audience of people who really get involved in the audience. All of a sudden they're interacting with past guests and past, uh, listeners, and I'm really enjoying the positivity and the process of watching all of the, the growth that that's happening with this.

[00:55:27] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. It sounds like your, your journey that you're taking is bringing you the same enjoyment. 

[00:55:34] Chris Lee: Uh, it, it is And, and I'm, I'm, yeah, very similar. I, I enjoy, I mean, there. There's plenty of negativity in the world and I don't want to contribute to that. So, so if I can, if I can bring a little positivity and, and connect with people and then connect people together, uh, in such a way that, uh, we're making as cliche as I said, we're making the world a little bit better, uh, a little bit, a little bit more positive than I, I'm totally down with that for sure.

[00:56:03] Travis Bader: Well, you've got a Facebook group as well, and that's something I've noticed cuz I, I joined your Facebook group mm-hmm. And I'm just kind of, I don't really do the social media thing very well, so I, I see things as they pop up, but not only are you providing people opportunities for growth, but I see the people within the group are able to now network with other like-minded people Yeah.

[00:56:25] Travis Bader: Who have similar goals and aspirations. Mm-hmm. What a cool thing that must be to watch 

[00:56:31] Chris Lee: a and that was the whole point of the group is, um, So my, my whole philosophy is, is three phased, so the, the phoenix, the serpent and the tribe, uh, the Phoenix is in reference to a, a parachute malfunction story. Uh, that, uh, I posted a video on a while ago, but let's hear it.

[00:56:53] Travis Bader: I saw, I saw it, but the audience will want to hear it. 

[00:56:56] Chris Lee: Fair enough. Uh, no. Full in there. I was, uh, so I was on a, uh, after I, I left Germany, uh, I was there for three years. I, I went to a military free fall team in, in, uh, in Fort Carson, Colorado. And, and the best group of guys I've ever worked with. Uh, but their whole job is to jump out of airplanes from high altitude with oxygen, mass and all their equipment, um, deploy their parachutes and then land together as a team at a specific spot.

[00:57:24] Chris Lee: Uh, and I was a little rusty with, with free fall. I hadn't done it in a while, but, My first event with the team was, uh, to go down to Arizona for Requalification to make sure everybody was spun up and, and doing the right thing. And I was with a bunch of senior guys that they really knew how to, they, they were sky gods.

[00:57:41] Chris Lee: They, they knew how to fly in the, in the sky. Hmm. Um, so, uh, Monday is the, the first jump, uh, it's Hollywood style, which is really just you and a parachute and, and you jump out of the airplane. And I was middle of the stack because, uh, I was kind of the new guy on the. I exit the aircraft, turn on heading, check my altitude, pull my rip cord, no issues.

[00:58:03] Chris Lee: It's just like riding a bike. Uh, and so I was pretty stoked. And so as the week progressed, uh, you just started adding more equipment to yourself. Uh, and then by the end of the week on Friday, you're doing wall locker jumps, which is everything that's in your wall. Lockers now strapped to you. So, so it's, you know, a r between your legs, rifle across your, your waist, you got your oxygen tank, your your mask, uh, your parachute, obviously.

[00:58:27] Chris Lee: Um, and so that's how we were, we were loaded up, uh, in the aircraft. And, um, A again, I, I hadn't had any issues throughout the week. Uh, felt really good. Um, I was in middle of the stack again and, uh, I, I get to the edge of the ramp, uh, I exit the aircraft, turn on heading, check my altimeter, pull, rip cord.

[00:58:49] Chris Lee: Everything goes fine. I look up and I've got line twists. And all that means is like the, the lines from my harness to the chute are twisted. Mm-hmm. Isn't a huge deal. It's kind of a, a normal malfunction. And all you do is you, you grab those risers and you pull 'em apart and kind of bicycle kick your legs and you eventually unwind.

[00:59:09] Chris Lee: Um, uh, our parachutes are designed in such a way that as you fall, it creates forward drive. They're designed more like a wing than just like a, a circle. Mm. So as I was untwisting, my wi my lines, uh, the parachute kinda pendulum swung me out sideways. So I was almost horizontal to. In relation to the Earth.

[00:59:32] Chris Lee: Mm-hmm. Uh, and now I was creating forward drive down towards, towards the ground. Uh, and so I'm still twisted, so I don't have any control over my, my brake lines, so I can't control the canopy. Uh, and now I'm starting to spiral hor in, re horizontal in relation to the earth. Uh, and I'm just like whipping around.

[00:59:52] Chris Lee: Uh, my, my team sergeant at the time counted. He said, I, I, I spun around like nine times. Um, and so by the end, like. The Gs I was pulling, like my, my, my vision was really starting to close in and I was, I was in trouble. Uh, a more senior guy would've after like the second spin, would've just cut his main parachute away and, and deployed his reserve.

[01:00:16] Chris Lee: Um, uh, and I should have done that. Uh, and there's probably a, a sermon in there somewhere. So, but, uh, but uh, I rode that wave out and finally, uh, my lines untwisted and I grabbed my brake lines and yanked them, and I leveled out, uh, and whi, which was great. Now I'm flying a canopy, but I was super dizzy.

[01:00:37] Chris Lee: Like, I, like I was looking all over and the world was still spinning in, in my eyes. Um, and so everybody's calling over the radio like, Chris, turn around. Go the other way. No, your other left turn, turn around. And it was just a bunch of radio chatter looked down at your G p s and I was looking at my, my equipment on my chest.

[01:00:54] Chris Lee: And it's just spinning cuz I'm still so dizzy. Uh, and then finally, finally, there's a, a break, uh, in the radio chatter. And Matt sup, super senior guy on the team. He's a good friend of mine. He's like, Chris, turn towards the sun. Uh, and I look over my left shoulder. I bank a hard left turn. And, um, about that time my buddy Andy kind of swos in, in front of me so I can follow him.

[01:01:18] Chris Lee: And so then I'm back on course and I land with the team. Um, so, so the Moralist story is have that thing in the distance that you can kind of aim towards to get you back on track. But, but why is that called the Phoenix phase in my coaching program. So, uh, later on when Matt and I went and got beers, he was like, Hey man, uh, so.

[01:01:39] Chris Lee: Your, your parachute has a device in it that if you're falling at, at terminal velocity and you're unconscious, it'll fire, it's called a cypress. It'll fire and deploy your reserve automatically so you don't have to pull your rib cord, but you have to be falling at a certain rate for it to, to deploy. Um, mm-hmm.

[01:01:56] Chris Lee: But due to the configuration in which I was spinning, I wasn't falling fast enough for that to have worked. And so I would've burned into the ground like a Phoenix. That's what he referred to it as. So that's, wow, that's the Phoenix face. Uh, and, and again, the whole point of that, that story when I tell clients and stuff is, is.

[01:02:15] Chris Lee: When, when chaos is amidst your daily life, when you can't tell which way is up or, or where anybody is, have something in the distance that's big and, and able to aim at, and then, then you can at least maintain a good azimuth, uh, and the direction of your life. So, so that's longwinded winded. Uh, I love that for, for Phoenix, but that's phase one.

[01:02:38] Chris Lee: So phase two is the serpent and it's, it's in reference to the aura Boris, which is the, the snake that's eating its own tail snake eat. Yeah. So, so my, I heard a good explanation on, on, uh, on that symbol, the, the war Boris. And, and that is as the snake devours itself, it destroys the parts of itself that are no longer necessary and the parts of itself that are no longer serving itself, uh, in order to provide nourishment to grow.

[01:03:09] Chris Lee: So that's like phase two of, of my coaching program is like, let's eliminate the things that aren't serving us in order to give us the strength to continue to grow on, on our journey. And then, uh, the last phase is the tribe, um, surrounding yourself with people that are on the same journey as you, uh, in order to progress forward and to ensure that they will call you out if you are not measuring up to the standard which you set for yourself.

[01:03:37] Chris Lee: Uh, and again, this is a long-winded answer to say that's what, that's what the, the intent behind the Facebook group is, is, is it's a built in tribe. So when, when you are able to, or when you want to share kind of some of the, the goals that you have for yourself, you have a community around you that are supporting you and, and then also calling you out if you're not measuring up.

[01:04:00] Travis Bader: You know, everyone's gonna be on a different point in their journey, I should imagine, once they come in to the tribe. Sure. Some people have been in the tribe for a long time. Some are brand new, and their value system might be different in what they've, as is typically common. As you further along on a journey, you're able to recognize things from a different perspective.

[01:04:20] Travis Bader: Sure. Um, do you find that there's, uh, heavy moderation that's required? Or is your, are these 

[01:04:30] Chris Lee: I I haven't had any moderation issues in the group so far. Uh, everybody has been really supportive. Um, when I try to do like a, uh, have everybody post their, their wins and challenges on Mondays. Mm-hmm. Uh, Monday's a, a good way to, to start the week off with like, all right, let's, let's get motivated.

[01:04:50] Chris Lee: Um, And the responses in there is overwhelmingly positive, uh, from people that don't even know each other, just like mm-hmm. When they're, when they're experiencing challenges, uh, there is support there from, from others. Uh, which, which is, which is the intent behind the whole group is, um, again, support, but also keep each other accountable to the commitments you've made to yourself.

[01:05:16] Travis Bader: There was a study done, I think it was the largest of its kind, was it in Ireland? I'm trying to, for, I'm trying to remember where this was done, but ma massive, massive data set that they accumulated information from trying to identify sort of the, the people who identify as happy, the happiest people in life, and what are the things that, that they have or that they're doing that brings happiness to them.

[01:05:41] Travis Bader: And the number one indicator at the end of this study apparently was, Strong social connections, whether that be family, whether that be friends, having a strong social group. And in this day and age of social media, which a lot of times really isn't social, it's sort of a comparative matrix. Exactly. The comparison is the thief of joy.

[01:06:07] Travis Bader: Right, right. Um, having that strong social network is one of the things that they identify that if people can come back home at the end of the day and have a family that they can, uh, meet with on the regular every week, or have the friends that they meet and have that, that regularity and consistency, they're gonna identify as as happy.

[01:06:28] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. But the one thing that kind of hits me is most people are gonna be friends with individuals that they've known for a long time, and they may grow and progress in life, just like the people in your group might be further down that path. And other people might not, and there is a difficult decision that might, might need to be made at times of who do we want to continue to allow to be in our social circle If all they're bringing is negativity and problems all the time and they're not doing anything to help themselves, the group or us.

[01:07:06] Travis Bader: Is that something that you've had to encounter or deal with in some of your clients? 

[01:07:10] Chris Lee: Uh, yes. In some of my clients, but also with myself. Um, I like really, really good friends that have been friends for years. I've had to, uh, not cut them out of my life, but be okay with spending less time and energy with them.

[01:07:28] Chris Lee: Uh, for, for the reasons you just stated. Uh, they, they've got a problem for every solution and, uh, are not interested in setting themselves up for success, but would rather, uh, But would rather just take the time to, to blame anything and everything other than themselves for their current situation. And it doesn't mean I don't love them.

[01:07:51] Chris Lee: Mm-hmm. It doesn't mean I don't care about them. It doesn't mean I'm, I don't root for them when they are successful, but it's, I, I'm on a, I am on a path, uh, towards the betterment of, of myself and the people around me. And if, if you don't wanna participate, uh, on that journey in a, in a constructive way, then, uh, I, I'm gonna have to leave you where you are and continue journey.

[01:08:15] Chris Lee: Mm-hmm. Which, which is, it's not easy. It's not easy, uh, particularly kind of coming from where I came from, which is like, you know, never leave a fallen comrade, you know? Um, but, but it's almost like triage, uh, you know, there's, there's people with injuries that are easily, um, Easily dealt with. There's people with injuries that are gonna require some major surgery, um, but they're, they are able to be saved.

[01:08:44] Chris Lee: And then there's people that are, regardless of what you're gonna do, who are gonna die. I mean, that's, mm-hmm. That's the triage process. Um. Mm-hmm. And, uh, if, and I'm not, I'm not saying that there isn't still hope, uh, for them to, to move forward or the people that are in your life that are, uh, struggling.

[01:09:02] Chris Lee: I'm not saying that, but like, sometimes you have to do a little bit of a triage and, and, you know, um, how much energy and time are, are you willing to devote towards, uh, somebody that, um, Isn't interested in healing themselves either. You know what I mean? 

[01:09:20] Travis Bader: That that's a big thing for me. And, you know, the best predictor of future performance is past performance.

[01:09:26] Travis Bader: And if that pass, they might say all the right things, but do all the wrong things consistently over and over again. Right. And there's, there's, there's only so long that you can play the fool and be like, okay, I'm gonna keep helping. Okay, I'll bail you out until finally you have to. Like I say, I, you know, same as you.

[01:09:44] Travis Bader: There's people in my life love 'em. I've known 'em for a long time. But you have to make a decision as to where your time is best spent. Exactly. And if that's gonna be bringing you down and your, those around you down and creating a, an environment, I mean, if you look into the abyss long enough, it'll look back at you.

[01:10:04] Travis Bader: That ain't saying. Right. And uh, um, now I, I've heard. And, and it's true if you, the more you look into it, the more it becomes you. Some of your friends'll show you who you are. Mind you, uh, I think Jordan Peterson says, you just haven't looked into the abyss long enough because you will, you'll eventually see light.

[01:10:23] Travis Bader: And I, I guess what he's trying to say on that is, and I'm totally speculating, I guess he's trying to say that once you look into something long enough, maybe it's kind of like saying a word over and over again where it loses all meaning. If you're looking into something now, you can compartmentalize it, remove the emotion from it, and perhaps look at it from all edges and kind of see where it's gotta move to.

[01:10:45] Travis Bader: But um, sure. Yeah. Bit, bit of a tangent, but Yeah. Likewise, difficult thing have had to deal with, and I just was curious on your 

[01:10:52] Chris Lee: perspective. Yeah, it's, it's, it hasn't been easy. Uh, but, but kind of to your point, uh, a second ago, like, uh, one of my more favorite quotes is, uh, I, I never trust words. I even question actions, but patterns never lie.

[01:11:10] Travis Bader: Um, Ooh, I like that. 

[01:11:11] Chris Lee: Yeah, no, I like that. So, yeah, uh, looking at patterns is, is particularly patterns of life, uh, is kind of a good indicator of direction of life. 

[01:11:22] Travis Bader: I never trust words, I'll even question actions. Yeah. But patterns never lie. Yeah. I like that one. I'm gonna steal that one. I'm gonna borrow it.

[01:11:33] Travis Bader: Please 

[01:11:33] do. 

[01:11:33] Chris Lee: I stole it from somebody else. So, 

[01:11:36] Travis Bader: um, so, you know, there's so many other things I'm, I'm looking at here, but, uh, you know, you are quoted as saying small steps consistently are more important than big strides, sporadic. And that was one of the things that I look at. I love that quote. Is that your quote or is that, did you steal that one too?

[01:11:58] Travis Bader:

[01:11:59] Chris Lee: probably still, I, I try to, I try to glean as much smart stuff from other people as I possibly can, but, uh, uh, it is something I, I, I do believe in for sure. Um, uh, it, like, it's like going to the gym, uh, maxing out your first day in the gym and not ever returning for, for like three months and then maxing out again.

[01:12:21] Chris Lee: Versus, uh, putting a little bit of weight on the bar and lifting it with good form every day. Uh, for three months, I is gonna give you two different results. Um hmm. And, and that's, and that I think is applicable in just about any endeavor in life. Um, I thi, uh, I just saw a TikTok, uh, I think it was Jesse Itzler.

[01:12:42] Chris Lee: Um, he was like, if you spend a hundred hours a year, Um, in any, in any endeavor, um, which is only like 18 minutes a day. Mm. Uh, then than you are in the top like 5% of, of anybody that's in that, that particular field, whether it's golf or writing or an instrument or anything. Um, wow. And, and something else I try to tell people is like, look, you are the, the master of your schedule and um, an hour in the gym or an hour reading is only 4% of your day.

[01:13:19] Chris Lee: If you can't devote 4%, uh, to better yourself in some way, then uh, you have, I think, Time priority issues. 

[01:13:28] Travis Bader: Yeah. Well, well you've ever watched that movie The Edge with um, Anthony Hopkins. Anthony Hopkins, yeah. Yeah. Anthony Hopkins. Alec Baldwin. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And then you keep saying, well, one man can do another Can do, right.

[01:13:41] Travis Bader: Ex. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. In, in theory, that's correct. What one man can do, what one person can do, another person can do it. That's a hundred percent in, in theory. I mean, barring any physical or, or, or mental barriers, that might be a challenge. But you can, there's gonna be a way, there's gonna be a way that you can figure that out.

[01:13:59] Travis Bader: Yep. But clearly there are some that don't believe in that. Otherwise everyone would be doing it. Right. And this is why they would come to somebody like yourself because they realize they have potential. Mm-hmm. But they don't see the forest through the trees. They don't see the next step. You don't see that big guiding light that they can, uh, they can start working towards and making their way there.

[01:14:21] Travis Bader: Right. If, have you ever had to deal with, and I realize the coaching career is, is younger compared to your other life experiences ever had an experience? We've had to look at somebody and say, you know what, you're gonna have to level back your goals a little bit. Maybe shoot for something a little bit smaller or maybe, um, you're not putting the effort in that's required and I'm gonna have to drop you.

[01:14:46] Chris Lee: Uh, more often than not, I, I have to encourage people to aim bigger. Uh, yeah, I, I typically try to focus on five year goals. I think it's far enough a way that you could really build some momentum if you, if you are consistent. Um, I'll give you a quick example about that. So, so one of my very first clients when I first started out, he was kind of down on his luck and, and, um, home life wasn't great.

[01:15:12] Chris Lee: He was kind of on and off drugs and, uh, this was kind of like his last shot, uh, at kind of getting his life together. Hmm. And, uh, we got to his, like, financial goals. I was like, all right, tell me, tell me what, what do you want to have financially at the end of five years? Um, and he's like, I don't know, man, maybe, maybe $5,000 in the bank.

[01:15:33] Chris Lee: And I was like, dude, that is way too low. You are not thinking big enough. And he's like, I don't, Hmm. There's no way. I was like, how about $20,000 in the bank liquid, uh, at the end of five years? And he was like, there's absolutely no way I could do that. And so I just started hitting divide on the calculator and it, I think it wound up being like $11 a day.

[01:15:53] Chris Lee: I'm like, dude, when you go to work, can you put $11 in the bank? And he is like, yeah, I could, I could totally do that. And so it was, it was like a realization in his head that like, y yeah, $20,000 is a big number if I try to do it right now, but if I, if I just do it every day, a little bit every day, it's, it's incredibly achievable.

[01:16:13] Chris Lee: Um hmm. And, and so that was kind of a big moment for him, I think. Um, but I. The times that I, I have had to help people dial back is, isn't that their goals were too big, but rather that they, they wanted to do so much. Uh, and even, even kind of with my process of breaking things down into small steps, there's still so many, only so many hours in the day and Right.

[01:16:41] Chris Lee: And, um, and so that it kind of has to come back to, okay, what's, what's the priority? Um, particularly people that aren't in their twenties anymore, if they're, you know, in their fifties or, uh, or something. It's like you, you kind of have to start dialing it in, dialing in, uh, to what you want to prioritize.

[01:17:03] Chris Lee: It doesn't mean you have to aim small, uh, but maybe less quantity, if that makes 

[01:17:08] Travis Bader: sense. Hmm. I think there's a level of anxiety that people get when they look at where they are in life and where they think they should be. And, you know, the clock is ticking, kind of how much time we have left, but when you pull it back, I mean, like Vaynerchuk will always say, you're young, you got time.

[01:17:28] Travis Bader: Right, right, right. You, you got so much time ahead of you. Like statistically PE speaking people live to what, 74, 80 on, on, on an average. And, uh, where, where do you want to be with these things? Um, the quote from, what was that show? The inception. Remember when they're, they pull out a gun and these, uh, shooting and uh, love it there or whatever he is shooting.

[01:17:53] Travis Bader: And then, um, oh, what's his name? I forget his name. Anyways, he's like, you mustn't be afraid to dream a little bit larger. Right, right. Pulls out a bigger gun and. Start shooting. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Um, that dream big idea is so difficult for somebody who's never been there. And I, and I look at myself and I look back on my accomplishments.

[01:18:16] Travis Bader: I never in a million years would think I would be here. Like if you ask younger me, man, I'd be happy if I had just a tiniest fraction of the success that I've seen over the years, both in family and friends and business and, and the rest never would've thought I'd be here. Yeah. Um, mind you, for me, if I had to start from scratch right now, this is now my baseline, this is where I would look at and say, this is what I expect of myself.

[01:18:43] Travis Bader: Right. Right. And it's far easier for me to get there because I've seen that path and I know that as, as an expectation for myself. And like I think of when I first started my business as my. Uh, early twenties. I had a sole proprietorship before that when I was in my teenage years, and I was, you know, trying everything, no clue what I was doing.

[01:19:03] Travis Bader: And friends, a friend's like Trav, like, you need a computer? Like, I can't afford a computer. He's like, oh, I got some spare parts. We'll put one together. We'll make you a computer. Right. And right. He's like, you gotta incorporate, I'm like, I can't afford to incorporate, I got no idea how to do this thing.

[01:19:17] Travis Bader: Right? Like, man, if I was incorporated, if I had a business bank account and a computer, well I am top of the world, right? Like there's, and from where I was, I, I, I am way up there. I'm at the top of that mountain for sure. Yeah. But there's always gonna be higher mountains. I think the easiest way to fast track people to get up to their next highest mountain is to walk up.

[01:19:41] Travis Bader: A mountain guide who's done these mountains before, who can rope you in and show you the way, and give you the, and I, that's the, I personally, from an outsider looking in, I, I see as the biggest value that someone like yourself and your community can bring to somebody is recognizing the potential that is available for them.

[01:20:00] Travis Bader: And the path isn't really that difficult. $11 a day, that's not that bad. Right, exactly. Exactly. One step at a time, 

[01:20:07] Chris Lee: not bad. Right? Right. And, uh, yeah, and I, I don't want people to think that I'm like some guru or, or expert in all things. I'm, I'm really not. What, what I am though is somebody that had, had a dream and chased after it and, and figured out what it took to get there.

[01:20:27] Chris Lee: Uh mm-hmm. And so that's what I want to help people actualize on is, um, I'm. Uh, I mean, some of, some of the people I've worked with are like, you know, artists that want to commission, uh, paintings and stuff, and I'm not an artist, but I, I do know like what it takes to, to get from point A to point B, which is, which is consistent effort and and discipline.

[01:20:49] Chris Lee: Mm-hmm. And that, that I can help you with for sure. 

[01:20:52] Travis Bader: And Val, valuing yourself properly, which I would think comes back to the Anne Rand pride. Exactly, exactly right. Being, being proud of what you, you've done. And that was always a difficult for thing for me. I would just give away things rather than charge for it, because, you know, I always remember it's like if somebody does a favor for you, right?

[01:21:14] Travis Bader: Yeah. Yeah. And you give them 10 bucks, they're gonna look at you and say, the favor I did is worth way more than $10. Right, right, right. Or you give someone flowers and you say, here, here's flowers. Thanks so much. Those flowers may have been 10 bucks. But they feel valued all of a sudden. Right. So, right, right.

[01:21:32] Travis Bader: Under, under that, under that sort of mentality, I would say, why would I allow somebody to give me, uh, X dollars of money when I feel what I've provided as much more, I'll just give it to them for free and Right. You know, um, I, I'd feel better about myself. I'm not, it's not like I'm selling myself short.

[01:21:52] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. That has always been one of the most difficult things for me, is knowing what your value is and what I've learned as time goes on. Cause I'm still having a difficult time with that. Is, uh, your value is whatever somebody's willing to pay, really. Right. Right. And, um, your value structure that you set for yourself is one that.

[01:22:18] Travis Bader: Is one that'll essentially train your clients too, right? You look at high-end products out there, uh, I mean, in the mountaineering world, art Arteris is gonna have a higher price tag than let's say Tega. I don't even know if Tega is even around anymore. Or, um, let's say North Face. Mm-hmm. They, they both offer jackets that Butch jackets both do a great job, but, uh, one of 'em is gonna attract a different sort of clientele to them and put them in a different sort of circle.

[01:22:45] Travis Bader: Right. Um, right. I, I think, uh, I think those are the, the two sort of things that, that I've learned so far and I'm still learning. Mm-hmm. Hmm. PE your value is whatever people are willing to pay. Uh, and you don't have to accept any jobs that, uh, are outside of that. And if, if you value yourself at a high level and you provide high quality service, you're gonna attract high level.

[01:23:12] Chris Lee: Clients. I, I 100% agree with that. And something else that I have found is, um, when I, when I first started out, uh, I, I set my prices relatively low. I, I thought they were high, but, uh, that they were pretty low. And what happened was, um, the pain point for the client wasn't high enough, and so they wouldn't do the work.

[01:23:38] Chris Lee: Mm-hmm. Um, if the, if they're not investing, uh, enough, they, they don't, they don't see the value in it. Uh, even if the, even if they paid, you know, a couple hundred bucks or, or whatever, it's, the pain point wasn't high enough for them to, to actually commit to the process. Mm-hmm. It wasn't until like I, I like bumped my prices pretty significantly that.

[01:24:04] Chris Lee: And maybe that just attracted a different crowd, but, uh, but ultimately it was like those are the people that are actually doing the work, uh, because they, they see it as a higher investment in themselves, uh, and they want to capitalize on that investment. 

[01:24:19] Travis Bader: And I think it's brilliant. Tony Robbins does the same thing.

[01:24:22] Travis Bader: He'll just, and he says, I charge a ridiculous amount of money, not because I need the money, not because I have to, but because if you're willing to pay that amount of money, you're willing to put the work in. 

[01:24:31] Chris Lee: Exactly. 

[01:24:31] Travis Bader: Uh, a hundred percent. I had a, uh, I heard a marketing fellow say, you know, the difference between a $500 job and a $5,000 job.

[01:24:42] Travis Bader: The $500 job you provide the, uh, the artwork to the client. The client will come back with their suggestions for changes and, uh, what they want to do. And, and you put, you put it through and then they put it up and they advertise maybe in a couple places, the $5,000 artwork. They just. Throw it up, they advertise it and they reap the benefits of it, right?

[01:25:01] Travis Bader: They charge them more. You make more money. You have a less difficult client. The client trusts you that there's a reason why they're hiring you. Right? And I, I, I learned that one at a very early age. I just didn't implement it still, I mean, but, um, I did Silvercore gun works before having Silvercore training, and I was doing firearms repair and maintenance and gunsmithing.

[01:25:26] Travis Bader: So I do work with armored car companies, extended work for law enforcement, for, uh, mineral exploration and forestry companies that have firearms. And, and then every Joe Blow who's got a gun, who wanted to bring it on in and have it worked on. And, uh, I found. There was an excellent learning process working on all the different types of firearms out there.

[01:25:47] Travis Bader: But I had an old guy come in and he says, I got this rifle and I picked up a barrel blank. I'd like you to be able to, uh, thread it and chamber it, and I want it with an X thousand tolerance. Uh, uh, and I wanted, uh, a muzzle break put on. So I had to make a muzzle break and cut and crown and thread and action work and a whole bunch of things.

[01:26:09] Travis Bader: And then he wanted the whole thing. I think it was parkerized, might have been ballooned. He wanted the whole thing. Um, uh, a finish on it. I, yeah, it was a manganese phosphate coating I put on the thing and, uh, I look at this old guy, old pensioner and he all this work and there's a company called Brown L's and they've got, uh, you're aware of them.

[01:26:27] Travis Bader: I see by nodding your head in the back of their, uh, their catalog, they have high low of what, uh, people in the states charged for their work. And so I looked at all these things and even at the low end, it was ticking up on the high price scale. So I took all of the low ends and then they cut the price in half and then gave this guy a wicked deal.

[01:26:45] Travis Bader: Yeah. I give him this rifle trigger job done, whole bunch of stuff and he throws it in the back cuz his truck gives me the money. Hey, thanks. See you later. Right? I was like, oh, okay. Right. He seemed holy, ungrateful. But a week later he came back with an exact same type of action and exact same barrel, wanted the whole work done all over again, just in a different caliber.

[01:27:05] Travis Bader: And now I'm feeling like I'm being taken advantage of, right? So, so I go through this whole thing and I'm like, well, I'm gonna charge him. And it was still, wasn't at the high end of what Brown ELs was saying, I'm gonna charge him. More. And uh, cuz I explained to him, when I did the first one, I gave him a screaming deal because of the sob story that he gave and his everything else.

[01:27:23] Travis Bader: And anyways, number two comes in. Exact same thing, only thing different was his chamber in a different caliber. Yeah. He, it was sitting there on the workbench and he comes and he looks at it and he leaves, he says nothing goes into his vehicle. And he comes back and I was like, is he annoyed? Like, what's going on?

[01:27:40] Travis Bader: Right. And he puts on white gloves, picks it up, and he says, no, that that's quality work. There's no difference between what I did there and what I did in the other one except charged them more. Oh man. So that, that one always stuck in the back of my head. Yeah, that's, 

[01:27:58] Chris Lee: that's an interesting learning experience.

[01:28:01] Chris Lee: Yes. 

[01:28:03] Travis Bader: So is there anything that we haven't touched on that we should touch on? Are there things in your business that you're looking at, uh, at doing or, or things that you want to get out to the audience that, uh, you think would be important? Uh, 

[01:28:17] Chris Lee: that's a good question. Uh, No, I, I think we, we covered, like, my biggest thing is getting kind of my philosophy out there.

[01:28:26] Chris Lee: Uh, it, it doesn't resonate with everybody, but I think it resonates with some, and sometimes throughout, throughout the process when I work with folks is they, they love the whole dreaming big of the five year goals and stuff. That's like the sexy part that they really get into. Mm-hmm. It's the, it's like the backwards planning and then the accountability piece that is boring, but the most important.

[01:28:50] Chris Lee: And that's where I kind of come in and, and help. Uh, I'm like, I'm like the bumpers when you go bowling and you don't want to get a gutter ball. So, uh, that's kind of my role is, is to ensure that you're, you're operating, uh, within your left and right limits, uh, according to the plan that, that we come up with together.

[01:29:10] Chris Lee: And, uh, I've had to kind of like, figure out how to communicate with people, uh, coming from, you know, the teams. Uh, I could be relatively assertive and zero filter and it'd be okay. Yeah. And so I've had to, I've had to kind of dial that back some, uh, although some people are like, Hey, you can, you can be meaner to me if you need to be.

[01:29:33] Chris Lee: I'm like, all right, I can sure straight, I can do that too. So, uh, that's been, uh, an interesting learning experience too, is like how to, how to communicate with people again. 

[01:29:45] Travis Bader: Yeah, I guess so. Do this now. You'll be better. Right, right. Why I, because I said do it, trust me. Right. Uh, well, Chris, Thank you very much for being on the Silvercore podcast.

[01:30:00] Travis Bader: Like I'll just reiterate for anyone listening, there's gonna be links both on YouTube and on the podcast. You can find Chris, follow Chris, see him on Instagram, the Facebook groups, TikTok, you're all over the place. Uh, and, uh, you know, if you enjoy the content you're hearing here, make sure to tell others about it.

[01:30:18] Travis Bader: It's really helpful. Subscribe, comment, follow, and uh, if you want to get some of the inside, uh, perks and privileges associated with the Silvercore Club, by all means, check that out to you. Chris, thanks so much for being on the Silver Core Podcast. 

[01:30:34] Chris Lee: Thanks so much for having me. It was awesome. Uh, I hope to do it again, sir.

[01:30:38] Chris Lee: Absolutely.