Rifle on Mossy Rock
episode 37 | Dec 21, 2020

Ep. 37: Setting Your Sights on Your First Rifle - Tips for Buying the Right Firearm

In this episode of The Silvercore Podcast, Travis speaks with Dylan Eyers from EatWild. They discuss what firearms are a good option for beginners, some considerations when purchasing your first firearm such as calibre size and recoil, stainless or blued firearms, new or used firearms, and more. Tune in for answer’s you won’t want to miss out on.
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Travis Bader: [00:00:00] I’m Travis Bader and this is The Silvercore Podcast. Join me as I discuss matters related to hunting, fishing, and outdoor pursuits with the people in businesses that comprise of the community. If you’re new to Silvercore, be sure to check out our website, www.Silvercore.ca where you  you can learn more about courses, services, and products we offer. 

[00:00:30] As well as how you can join The Silvercore Club, which includes 10 million in North America wide liability insurance to ensure you are properly covered during your outdoor adventures.

[00:00:41] This is a unique episode, as it could be listened to you on both the Silvercore and EatWild distribution networks. I get the opportunity to recount some highlights from this year’s hunting season with my buddy Dylan, and we provide our thoughts on firearm and calibre selection for both new and experienced hunters. And we’re live. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:01:04] We’re live. Hey Travis. 

Travis Bader: [00:01:07] Hey Dylan. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:01:09] Okay, great to see you, man. And I glad that you’re coming and hanging out here with me on the EatWild Podcast. Now this is a bit of a unique podcast because I’m introducing you to the concept of the swap cast. And this is where basically we’re just getting together for a conversation. And as we get into this, we’ll, we’ll talk a bit more about what Silvercore does and your journey into podcasting. 

Travis Bader: [00:01:29] Well school me on a swap cast. What does that mean?. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:01:31] Okay. Okay, okay, okay. So the podcast concept is something that was introduced to me by the rookie hunters and the journal of mountain hunting podcast. And basically, it’s just an opportunity where you hang out with the host of another podcast, and then you essentially share that podcast on each other’s platform. 

[00:01:48] And really it’s an opportunity for me to get introduced to your followers and people who are listening to the Silvercore Podcast and then flip it around and well, of course you get to hang out with me and the vast listening audience, I like to say, of the EatWild Podcast. So either way we get to meet a few people and still just have fun.

Travis Bader: [00:02:08] Fantastic. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:02:09] Yeah.

Travis Bader: [00:02:09] Man that sounds great. I mean, your audience, Silvercore audience, there’s going to be a lot of crossover there anyways. And if they haven’t heard of the EatWild podcast on Silvercore, then now they can go check it out, and vice versa. If the EatWild audience hasn’t heard of Silvercore, guess what? We’ve got a podcast, check it out. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:02:24] There you go. Perfect. Okay. 

Travis Bader: [00:02:25] Love it.

Dylan Eyers: [00:02:25] So starting there. Hey, so let’s do the formal introduction. Okay, everybody welcome to the EatWild podcast. I’m sitting down with my friend, Travis from Silvercore and Travis has been involved in the training industry for a while for some time now and focused on, you know, firearms, training, hunting training, and he’s taken that business into a whole bunch of cool directions.

[00:02:46] Lately he’s been playing around with developing the Silvercore podcast and without further ado, welcome. Welcome Travis. Welcome to the EatWild podcast and the swap cast with the Silvercore podcast. Welcome. 

Travis Bader: [00:02:58] Hey, I’m looking forward to it. We always have fun when we do these things. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:03:00] Yeah, we did this gosh a while back and it was actually one of my, the more popular podcasts that we talked about. We kind of got into firearms and firearms maintenance and.

Travis Bader: [00:03:11] That’s right.

Dylan Eyers: [00:03:12] Had a lot of feedback. That was probably the one podcast that generated the most people kind of reaching out and saying, Hey, I actually learned something in your podcast and really appreciated the knowledge. So yeah, that one carried us. Yeah. 

Travis Bader: [00:03:23] That was my very first podcast. And you know, I never really listened to podcasts prior to, I was one live podcast I went to, I just. Don’t seem to have the time to listen unless I’m driving and I’ve situated my work. And everything’s so close to my home that, I just didn’t know much about them. You introduced me to the podcast world, Dylan. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:03:46] And here you are, now you’re like, now you’ve trying to find time just to have that next conversation. And by the sounds of it, you’re a little bit hooked on doing it. You’re having some fun. So tell me a little bit about the Silvercore podcast and what’s it about and, yeah, where are you heading with it? 

Travis Bader: [00:03:59] Oh, it’s great fun. You know, it was a, not having listened to podcasts really before, it was a complete new experience. Like, what am I supposed to do? What do I talk about? Right. And what are people actually going to be listening to this? And after doing the podcast with you, got you know, kind of an idea of the format and what people are looking for.

[00:04:18] And I took my office here in Tilbury and decided, I know let’s move the entire office staff outta here, got another location in Ladner and turned the Tilbury location into a studio. So we’ve got, I’ve picked up some video cameras for some of the online stuff that we do and my office, I don’t know. 

[00:04:39] It’s hard to see from this, we’re using an online service here, but I’ve gone and soundproofed it and set it up as a podcast room and just slowly plugging away, having a lot of fun with it. And really I’m, the reason why I’m doing it is because it’s fun. It’s a positive outlet and it’s a chance to share with others, my passion. And it seems to be well-received so.

Dylan Eyers: [00:05:03] Yeah. Yeah, no, it’s been fun. And I think more than anything this time of year, this year in particular, just with trying to stay connected, a lot of us are using these video platforms just to see our families and friends and, you know, have a virtual beer with your crew. 

[00:05:17] So really this is just a way of connecting with and that’s what actually this series of podcasts, isn’t why I called you up as I was like, well it’s the tail end of hunting season. You know, I’m gonna call up my buddies and talk about hunting and how the season was. So why not do that, and get my act together, record it and call it a podcast series. 

[00:05:36] So this is like the catching up with my hunting partners or hunting buddies series, and then hopefully tackle one question for each episode. So we’re going to get caught up a little bit. And then I think the topic, one of the questions that I get and, you no doubt get this as well as a hunting educator and as someone who certifies people for firearms and firearm safety is like, what firearms should I buy?

[00:06:01] If I was going to buy one firearm, what firearm should I buy? And you know,  that conversation, I find I’ve been through it a number of times, but I thought, Hey, if we record it on a podcast, then next time someone asks you that question, which will probably be tomorrow. You can be like, Hey, you can listen to my podcast about which gun you should buy as a new hunter.

Travis Bader: [00:06:21] Ahh, look at you. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:06:22] So really we’re winning at all fronts here, you know.

Travis Bader: [00:06:24] Look at you. I like it. So hunting, I saw you, you and Rob actually. So you guys pulled yourself a pretty nice muley there just on the weekend didn’t ya? 

Dylan Eyers: [00:06:32] That’s a black tail. That was a that’s my first black tail. 

Travis Bader: [00:06:36] Oh you got a black tail, not, very nice. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:06:37] Yeah. Rob took me to one of his secret spots and I’ve been kind of hacking around. I’m not,  typically I’m kind of done hunting by this time of year. I usually wrap up my hunting season around November, well, November 15. So that’s the end of my white tail hunt, and usually I’ve got a white tail and hopefully I’ve got a mule deer earlier in the season and I’m feeling pretty set for the year. 

[00:06:59] But I didn’t get a white tail this year and I also couldn’t go back out for a white tail, because there was the provincial regulations around not traveling here in British Columbia. And so I sort of committed to spending some time locally and exploring the black tail hunting opportunities. And I kinda was dabbling in it earlier this month. I got out for a couple of weekends to a spot that a friend of mine, an old timer friend of mine has been trying to put me on for a while and kind of got a bit of a taste for it.

[00:07:29] Like just found a few black tails. I was like, Oh, they like this really steep, challenging, ugly, hard to climb through forest. Okay, I think I know where they live now. And so I was kind of excited to dedicate some more time to it. So that was. 

Travis Bader: [00:07:43] So you didn’t get yourself, your white tail this year, eh? Cause that’s sort of your thing.

Dylan Eyers: [00:07:48] No.

Travis Bader: [00:07:48] You’re known for that. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:07:50] I just, Oh man, I was feeling like really in the dumps about it too. Like I, and not because I didn’t kill a deer, that’s actually not at all. I mean, I had, it’s the change in ecosystems that I like to hunt. Like the place that I like to hunt, there’s been a lot of forestry activity in the area and it just reducing the amount of winter range available for the deer, elk, white tail and mule deer in the area.

[00:08:20] So every year I go back, that’s just like one less place that I used to hunt for like my whole life is gone. Like it’s just newt and I was like, Oh, well, great. And so it’s just kind of heartbreaking when you’re like, wow, there’s a reason. Like when I was a kid, we used to see,  I used to be a good day was I see 20 deer and four or five bucks.

[00:08:39] And I saw three bucks this year, which was, last year I only saw one buck in 10 days of hunting. This year I actually had three opportunities at deer and it just didn’t work out this year, but I figure three opportunities is still pretty good for a six or seven day hunt 

Travis Bader: [00:08:56] Yeah you hunted hard last year.

Dylan Eyers: [00:08:58] Yeah, last year was brutal. Like last year was the same thing. So it was sort of feeling like, I knew this was coming. I knew there was going to be a year that I, you know, this is the first year since I was 12 years old that I didn’t kill a white tail deer. And so that was a good run, but had to come to an end.

Travis Bader: [00:09:17] Well, there you go. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:09:18] So I took it out on some poor black tail. 

Travis Bader: [00:09:22] Nice. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:09:24] Yeah so, I was eager to get back out there. And I found a new spot and it’s a nice timber and yeah, I had a great hunt.

Travis Bader: [00:09:32] Beauty. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:09:32] Learned something new.

Travis Bader: [00:09:33] Beauty.

Dylan Eyers: [00:09:33] Which I like the best, found a new spot. So I’m pumped and I might be hooked on black tail hunting cause it’s so God damn hard so.

Travis Bader: [00:09:41] You love the challenge do ya?

Dylan Eyers: [00:09:42] Well, like I like find in places hey. Like just finding places it’s like, you gotta put on a lot of miles, you got to figure things out, you puzzle it out. And then yeah, if you can find a spot then it’s cool when it works out.

Travis Bader: [00:09:55] Yeah, I think you nailed it.

Dylan Eyers: [00:09:55] It’s a lot of work to get there.

Travis Bader: [00:09:57] You nailed it. It’s like a puzzle. You start putting everything together and relying on what you know, and it’s a learning process as well through it. It’s a, that is a fun part. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:10:06] Oh, I love it. Okay so this is what we’re doing. We’re talkin hunting and we’re getting caught up. So what was the highlight of your hunting season this year?

Travis Bader: [00:10:13] Oh, highlight that definitely be, well, my son got his first deer, 11 years old. So last year, 10 years old, all he wanted for his birthday was to get his hunting license. He wanted to get his FWID, fish and wildlife ID is what we call it in BC. And so he studied and studied and studied and finally on his birthday, went in, took him to another instructor, had him go through, he aced it, super happy. And went out, did some hunting, but he wasn’t doing any harvesting in his first year. 

[00:10:43] And so this year we go out and actually there was, for waterfowl heritage days. So out in BC we’ve got our heritage days, which Junior hunters, youth hunters can get out a little bit early before everybody else learn what it’s all about. And so from one of our local gun stores in Ladner, Stillwater Sports is a guy there by the name of Jens Cuthbert. And he’s got an Instagram account if you’re into waterfowl hunting, it’s 604 Backwoods and he lives and breathes and sleeps, this is what he does is waterfowl hunting. He says, Trav, tell you what, if your son’s interested, waterfowl heritage days, days come on out. 

[00:11:28] So, took him out and he used to do guiding in the States for waterfowl and we actually did a Silvercore Podcast where he talks about how new people can get into it in the lower mainland and find their spots and all the ins and outs there. So any of these went out and my son got his first Mallard and was stoked because he said, you know, I didn’t know if I’d be able to, I didn’t know what it’d be like right. Having to harvest an animal. 

[00:11:57] So a week later we’re out and he’s got himself a, a draw for a mule deer doe. We head on out and drive out of Delta and we see in burns bog, a deer. We’re like, Oh hey, good sign, this is looking good. And then we get out to our location and we don’t see anything, we’re not seeing anything on the road there. Yeah. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:12:20] 20 minutes from the house, there’s a deer. Then you get out, drive for five hours. 

Travis Bader: [00:12:24] That’s right. And so we get out there and putting the time in. And so anyways, one morning, just miserable out and we’re out there bright and early and figure we’re in a pretty good location and he’s getting cold. And I got to remember 11 years old, you gotta keep it fun too, right? You can’t just be, you can’t just be, going hard. So we get back into the vehicle and we’re warming up and I say, tell you what, there’s another area around the corner, scouted, it looked promising. Let’s just go for a real quiet walk right? We’ll get out into this area, we’ll check it out. 

[00:12:59] So we do and we’re about to add about 20 minutes into our walk and I’m looking up on the hillside and there we go. There’s his doe that he’s got to draw for, but I’m looking, it’s kind of far and he’s been practicing at the range and I’m thinking, you know, I want to close that distance. Well, let’s see what we can do. So I don’t tell him and we’re just still doing the quiet walk and getting closer and closer. And the deer’s just standing there and I’m like, if it’s meant to be, it’s meant to be. We finally get into a position where it felt, okay, we’ve closed enough distance. It’s a perfect broadside shot.

[00:13:42] And I looked back to my son, I said, okay. And he’s got some electronic hearing protection. I said, okay, ears. Ears are on. I said, okay, load your firearm, you look up on the hill there, there’s a deer and he’s loaded it on up. And he gets on up and I said, maybe get into a kneeling position. Oh, right okay. So he gets down and gets to do a little bit more stable platform and  I said, okay safety?

[00:14:08] Oh, right, yeah safety. Here we go. And I mean, everything’s going through the head and I thought, well, now it’s up to him right. And if he pulls the trigger, fair enough. If he doesn’t fair enough, I mean, it’s up to him right. And he did, and he made the shot and I think we watched, sat there, waited for about half an hour, 45 minutes and said, okay, let’s get on out there. And let’s do some tracking.

[00:14:37] Got in and man, he was just ecstatic. And so I got to say that that was the highlight of the hunting trip. We’ve cooking up some back-straps over the campfire at night and recounting the story and coming back and making some burgers. And I mean, he was just in heaven and my wife was there and she’s a chef by trade. And so helping them out and identifying and doing all the butchering. 

[00:15:06] And so this is all a part of his schooling process, as well as the hunting and the butchering and the cooking, because due to COVID, one’s in high school and the other one we thought, well we’ll homeschool. He can, he’s doing his ground school for pilot training and hunting and all the things that a boy wants to do and why not right? 

Dylan Eyers: [00:15:26] Yeah, right on.

Travis Bader: [00:15:27] So that, that had to be a highlight for me. How bout you?

Dylan Eyers: [00:15:30] Yeah. Oh, well, that’s, I was just thinking about how cool it would be to be 11 years old and dad’s like, you know what? You’re out of school, you’re going to hunt a lot this summer and this  fall. Cause, that would be my dream of school as a kid so. 

Travis Bader: [00:15:46] And you know what, it’s what he wants. Actually we’re talking about it today cause he and I went out on real quick hunt here just in the lower mainland for some waterfowl and he says, you know, when I get older, do you think my kids will want to hunt with me? I said, well, you’d be pretty lucky if they do. I said, if they’re not into hunting, he says, well, what if they’re, what if they’re totally not into hunting? What if they’re, what if they’re vegans? And I said, if they’re vegans, you know, as long as you guys are respectful of each other, I’m sure it’ll be just fine. But you’ll be very lucky if they share some of the same hobbies and passions as you. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:16:22] And there’s lots of cool forging. You can do out there. 

Travis Bader: [00:16:24] That’s it!

Dylan Eyers: [00:16:25] You can go get mushrooms.

Travis Bader: [00:16:26] Totally.

Dylan Eyers: [00:16:26] And cool wild plants and berries. And you can.

Travis Bader: [00:16:28] That’s it!

Dylan Eyers: [00:16:29] You can bring your gun and, you know, you could shoot a grouse and your kids can pick berries and mushrooms, you know, it’s all good.

Travis Bader: [00:16:35] Yeah.

Dylan Eyers: [00:16:35] Figure it out. 

Travis Bader: [00:16:36] It’ll all be good. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:16:37] Yeah. No for sure. Well, I totally, I shared a little bit of that same experience this year out, my friend, Mickey, who I spent a lot of time with and she had wants to be a hunter and she did dedicate a lot of time to becoming a hunter. And so I was on riding shotgun for her first hunt and very similar to your story, but I won’t tell it cause I’ve got her lined up to tell her story with one of our, another one of our friends who’s also a very successful huntress. So got to leave that story for them to tell.

Travis Bader: [00:17:08] Oh very cool.

Dylan Eyers: [00:17:10] And not gonna step on her story, but man, I tell you, like there’s nothing better than being there for somebody else’s first time, or any hunt really just being along with.

Travis Bader: [00:17:19] Oh it’s fantastic!

Dylan Eyers: [00:17:20] Yeah. Yeah,  totally. 

Travis Bader: [00:17:22] It’s the whole process, that’s what I enjoy, is being out there, being in the woods, connecting with nature and just the process of sort of disconnecting from the day-to-day, the technology, the cell phones, computers, and all the rest and just kind of getting back to the basics. And whether I’m successful on a hunt or not, it really doesn’t matter to me. You know, I go hunting with some people and they gotta be successful and that’s the whole hunts around that. And if they’re not successful, it kind of makes for a negative hunt or kind of a crummy experience right. And so I’ve hopefully instilling the same sort of values in my children. And it seems to be sticking anyways. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:18:06] Yeah, that’s cool. I totally know what you, I fight  off that sentiment of needing to have success on a hunt. Like I’m conscious of it constantly. Like how much, obviously I’m a bit of a driver when it comes to hunting, given the amount.

Travis Bader: [00:18:22] Right.

Dylan Eyers: [00:18:22] I hunt and how passionate about I am, but I.

Travis Bader: [00:18:25] Yeah.

Dylan Eyers: [00:18:26] My friends have commented lately. They’re like Dylan, like, this is great. Like, you’re really like, you’re really chilling out. Like it’s kind of a conscious decision, I finally  realized now, you can control a lot of things when you hunt. I mean, it’s all about effort and time spent, but I really come to a point now where I recognize that I have enough confidence in my approach to hunting than if I just apply my approach and give myself enough time that it’s going to work out. If it’s gonna work out, it’s going to work out. 

Travis Bader: [00:18:58] That’s it!

Dylan Eyers: [00:18:59] I don’t like, that’s it like exactly so I don’t need to have.

Travis Bader: [00:19:03] And really what can you really control? And you say you can control a lot of things. You can plan for a lot of things, you can put different things in place, but the actual control factor, I mean, if you want to get real esoteric would at Viktor Frankl say he’s about control, the one thing, essentially, the only thing you can control is yourself. And he was that guy in the concentration camp right, who had all his, everything taken from, and he was watching people and some were just beside themselves and just completely overwhelmed. 

[00:19:37] And some people are finding happiness despite all of the adversity they’re facing. And he says, the one thing you can’t take from me is the way I choose to respond to what you do to me. The last life’s great freedoms is one’s ability to control their own attitude in any given circumstance. So really if, when I look at it, I kind of boil it down to that. If I’m out there and I’m having fun, great. I can put all the pieces in place and it can all go sideways right. But I can control that, whether I choose to be having fun with that or not. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:20:09] Totally. Totally. No. And that’s something I’m learning that as I get older and well, I’ve known it forever. It just, as you get older, you apply, it’s a life lesson. You just have to apply it and apply it and apply it. And then when you see that, when you see that competitive nature or that, that person inside you coming out, you’re like, oh hey, you know what, I know better. I know that I’m going to enjoy this more if I just like, let that go and  allow myself to enjoy the moment and the place and the people around me and not get caught up in outcomes because that just leads to problems in the end. And for me anyways.

Travis Bader: [00:20:40] I think so, you know, but you know, everyone’s different. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:20:43] Yeah. Well, yeah, totally well, I’m having a lot of fun these days hunting and still having success even despite, you know, not being as, as caught up in outcome so yeah, it’s all great. So it all worked out this year and it had a great, yeah. Great last, had a great season. So I can’t complaint, but.

Travis Bader: [00:20:59] That’s fantastic.

Dylan Eyers: [00:20:59] It’s cool I was, I was riding shotgun too for, no I wasn’t quite ridding shotgun, I was at a good friend, Ryan, he brought his son to white tail camp, who was 10. And Wyatt is like, oh he’s just, I just love this kid, he’s just so, he’s such a hunter. And he’s, his dad’s a really good hunter too, which is cool. Like they’ve been hunting mule deer together in the south Okanagan sneaking around and they’ve killed a few deer together, like sneaking around dad’s shot, you know, nice deer. 

[00:21:31] And this year, the plan was to get Wyatt his first deer. He’s 10 years old and he’s legal, ready to go. And the plan was to try and get him his first buck. And they ended up sneaking up on a white tail buck laying in its bed. And they got into.

Travis Bader: [00:21:48] Wow.

Dylan Eyers: [00:21:48] 80 yards and Wyatt shot it. 

Travis Bader: [00:21:50] Wow!

Dylan Eyers: [00:21:50] So I’ve got to say like, that’s pretty good hunting, man. If you could sneak up on a white tail.

Travis Bader: [00:21:55] No kidding!

Dylan Eyers: [00:21:56] Especially two of ya. I was pretty impressed. So yeah, the little guy was so chuffed. 

Travis Bader: [00:22:01] Oh, wow. Stars are lining up on that one. They’re doing their job right. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:22:06] Well, you know what, Ryan is such a good hunter. He kind of had all figured out, how he was going to do it. And he made it happen and picked kind of a spot that’s conducive to making it happen. And, but the best part was, is like that little kid that he was like, so they shot the deer pretty early in the morning and they got it back to camp. And so like I’m sure he was just couldn’t wait for the rest of the hunting camp to come back at like noon, like to be like.

Travis Bader: [00:22:34] Oh, so proud. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:22:36] Yeah, so proud. It was so awesome. Came back and yeah, it was like, yeah, that was the most fun it’s I’ve had this hunting season, so pretty cool. But hey. Okay, cool. Hey, so we didn’t do a great job of talking about what your podcast’s about and what you’re up to with your podcast so. 

Travis Bader: [00:22:57] We really didn’t. You know, you’ve got the EatWild podcast and right there in the title, it says eat wild, I mean, there’s a descriptor of what the podcast is going to be about. So I’ve got the Silvercore Podcast and of course, Silvercore is my business and I named it after my grandfather Silver Armano and my other grandfather, Cornelius Bader. Silver and Core.

Dylan Eyers: [00:23:18] Oh cool. 

Travis Bader: [00:23:19] Yeah. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:23:19] Oh cool, I didn’t know that.

Travis Bader: [00:23:20] One was a Vancouver police detective, the other one was an entrepreneur, ran a large bakery. He would say that they were bigger than dad’s oatmeal cookies, that they made cookies. But they owned a city block or so in and around commercial drive by the Croatian Cultural Centre is now, with bakeries. So I thought, well, you know, I’m into the firearms thing and that’s kinda like one grandfather, and then I’ve got the entrepreneurial spirit, it’s like the other one, I’ll just combine them together. 

[00:23:49] So there isn’t a heck of a lot of descriptor for what it is we do and the podcast, while we talk about hunting, firearms, fishing, foraging, outdoor related activities, really it’s an outlet for me just to bring positivity into the community. I don’t do it for any remuneration, and it’s got the Silvercore name so whatever publicity that can bring on in for the company, hey, that’s great. 

[00:24:18] But aside from that, I try to find interesting people and talk about things that are going to be, typically I stay away from the politics and stay away from uber contentious issues that are going to be divisive because it is a positive outlet for me. Like I had a Guy Cramer in and he invented the invisible cloak, and it sounds funny until he brings it in and shows it to you. 

[00:24:44] And it’s an array of lenticular lenses with a special fluid in between and it refracts light in such a way that you can get behind it and you disappear, but the background doesn’t and so we talked about that cause it’s got some crossover in the camouflage world right. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:25:01] Yeah.

Travis Bader: [00:25:02] We had Colin Dowler and I actually, I flew into his location and spoke with him. And he was in an encounter with a grizzly bear and fought it off with his pocket knife, while he was in the Grizzlies mouth being mauled and I mean, the guy almost died. Then he had to get on his bicycle and bike about 7K back with his one good leg bleeding everywhere and so, it really doesn’t have a pinpoint direction for the podcast.

[00:25:31] But if you’re interested in hunting, if you’re interested in fishing and foraging and outdoor related activities, we try to have the podcast navigate around those topics but it really is a sort of a positive outlet for people to hopefully learn and listen and enjoy something new.

Dylan Eyers: [00:25:54] Yeah, right on. And I think it’s so important I mean, and you know, I definitely wouldn’t, keep it, I listened a bit too to your podcast for sure and I see, I keep track of ya and I see what you’re, you know, I think that bringing that positive lens to like, you know, I’m really trying to bring that positive lens of the hunting.

Travis Bader: [00:26:11] Yeah.

Dylan Eyers: [00:26:11] That’s what EatWild’s been about the whole time and I see you doing that, really for the firearms education world. And like you’re telling positive stories as one of the leaders in firearms education here in Canada. And I think it’s great to have your voice at the front of that talking about not just firearms, but you know, the spectrum of things that are part of a way of life that include firearms.

[00:26:35] And I kind of liked that, I think it’s important and I think we need more of that because I think a lot of people who are perceived as the voice of the firearms advocacy world that are doing a good job of communicating with the broader society. And I applaud you for doing that and taking these steps. I think you’re doing a good job of it so. 

Travis Bader: [00:26:56] Oh, thanks, Dylan. Appreciate that. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:26:58] And it’s hard work. It’s a hard place to sit because you end up, there’s still controversy when it comes to people’s perception of firearms and such.

Travis Bader: [00:27:07] And that’s it. There is a perception and it’s an emotionally charged topic for summers. I see for anybody who’s been negatively affected by a firearm, far be it for me to try and change their mind. But I can speak to the things that I know and the things that are positive. And if other people can take some level of positivity away from that, great. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:27:28] Cool. Well, that lends itself right to our topic here.

Travis Bader: [00:27:31] Okay.

Dylan Eyers: [00:27:31] Talking about. Yeah. So the reason why I thought, I mean, other than just wanting to say hello and catching up and sharing a couple of hunting stories. I did want to talk about, like I said at the introduction, this is one of the most common questions that I get as a hunting instructor, which is, you know, what firearms should I buy as a new hunter?

[00:27:48] And I thought of you, because I know you, I believe in addition to doing all the things you’ve talked about, you’re also a gunsmith and you’ve been training people around firearms for a long time so I figured you’re the right guy to ask this question. So, okay, so the first question is if, what should the first firearm that a new hunter should buy?

Travis Bader: [00:28:09] The very first firearm? And now this is going to be for a hunter and not just a sports shooter, we’re saying, right? 

Dylan Eyers: [00:28:14] No. Yeah, we’re taking it. We’re  going through the lens of somebody who’s on the trajectory that wants to become a, you know, an ethical, safe, successful hunter. 

Travis Bader: [00:28:23] So there’s a, now you do realize that these are wormhole questions that we’re going into. And the reason why people ask it is because everyone’s got an opinion and the best thing that I think you and I can do right now is share our experience with the listeners so that they can make the best educated decision that works for them. Because what’s going to be the first firearm for me, or for my family members, or for you, might not be the best for them.

[00:28:53] There’s a lot of talk of, oh hey, you should start out with a 22, and I don’t disagree with that because it gets you familiar with firearms safety. It gets you familiar with something that’s knocking to break the bank, it’s not going to recoil a hole, you’re not going to have pain from recoil. The most offensive thing for the 22, for the shooter standpoint ,is going to be the noise. And it’s really not that loud compared to most of these firearms right. 

[00:29:21] And that logic is sound if somebody wants to just start out and learn how to use that firearm, and maybe they want to do some small game hunting. But there are principles that you learn on a 22 that some would argue would have to relearn on a firearm that’s going to be inducing recoil. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:29:42] Sure.

Travis Bader: [00:29:42] And so some people, some proponents would say, get something that’s going to do what you need it to do for the larger game first and go into it. With firearms, for some people anyways, they can be a gateway to more firearms right? The collection gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And it’s because there is no perfect calibre or no perfect gun. But if someone. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:30:10] Okay, but for the purpose of this conversation, we’re going to assume that we’re talking to somebody who lives in a condo in downtown Vancouver. 

Travis Bader: [00:30:16] Okay.

Dylan Eyers: [00:30:17] That is going to struggle to find this place even to put this gun, or two guns we’ll say, not, I think that you know, I think the end result of where these folks want to get to is the least amount of investment in firearms for the maximum amount of practical application. And that seems to me the core of the discussion that I get from people. 

Travis Bader: [00:30:41] Right.

Dylan Eyers: [00:30:42] And the other thing is, I think people want to, I mean as much as I’d like to talk about calibre’s and the virtues of the different calibre’s and what their performances are ballistic qualities are. I think at the end of the day, that I think it’s helpful for a number of people just to be told what to do from an expert with sound concept. 

Travis Bader: [00:31:05] So, ‘get this gun, full go’? 

Dylan Eyers: [00:31:07] Well, yeah, let’s try and say that.

Travis Bader: [00:31:10] So it’s three guns. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:31:11] It’s our end result. 

Travis Bader: [00:31:11] It’s three guns that they’re looking for. They’re looking for a 22, they’re looking for a shotgun and they’re looking for a centerfire rifle and then you’ve kind of got the gamut for everything. The shotgun allows you to not have to drive too far in order to learn from other people how to use that firearm, if you’re in the lower mainland area anyways. 

[00:31:30] I mean, the we’ve got the Vancouver Gun Club, which is in Richmond, but it’s called the Vancouver Gun Club and you can take your shotgun out there, ammo doesn’t cost a bunch of money. You can shoot around the sporting clays, you can learn from other people. And it’s sort of like a quick round of golf, essentially. He going through the backwoods there, clay birds fly up in the air, or they got the little rabbits that run along that ,a different type of clay that will run along the ground.

[00:32:00] And you get to learn how to use that shotgun. And if you want it to get into waterfowl hunting well, I mean, it’s pretty close, we’ve got a lot of areas right here. We’ve got that podcast through Silvercore, here we go, shameless plug, but where Dennis Zentner and Jens Cuthbert go through and talk people through how to get into waterfowl hunting if they’re the Vancouver urbanite.

[00:32:26] So that would be one. The 22 is great because ammo is cheap. The 22 isn’t going to break the bank and you can learn about firearms usage, you can practice your firearm safety and you can start taking it out to do target practice or small game hunting. And so the 22 is a great resource there. And then finally, they’re going to be looking for a centerfire rifle. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:32:56] Well, okay. Before we go onto the centerfire, let’s talk about, well, there’s two things you brought up, which I really thought well, that are interesting. So we’ll come back to the 22, but I do like that the one thing about a shotgun and like the, and I haven’t done a great job with this as a hunting instructor, or even as EatWild, who has lived so close to well, who has been advocating for accessible hunts. 

[00:33:25] Like duck hunting and goose hunting is probably the most accessible hunt. And we, you know, we have an overpopulation of geese here arguably, throughout lower mainland. And if you can find a way to gain access to a piece of property where geese live and hunt there legally, it’s an awesome resource. So it’s not a bad way to say, like, you know, if you want to hunt and you want to get some confidence and learn about shooting and then yeah going the shotgun route and hunting, you know, waterfowl or migratory game birds is a great idea.

Travis Bader: [00:34:01] Sure. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:34:02] And the other piece that I really liked what you said there, and I hadn’t thought about it, but like the accessibility and how much fun it is to go to shoot skeet and to go to a like a shotgun range and shoot clay birds, basically flying disks. And then just the tremendous support and mentorship that’s at those types of clubs. Cause it really is like, it’s really fun, like it’s a really supportive fun environment. 

Travis Bader: [00:34:31] It’s totally fun. If you go there with the attitude to learn and without a chip on your shoulder, which basically everyone does when they go to these places, people flock to you because they want to help you and share what they know with you. And sometimes it might get a little overwhelming and you say, okay, okay, hold on, I got to put things together on my own a little bit here, but.

Dylan Eyers: [00:34:49] Yeah.

Travis Bader: [00:34:49] There’s no shortage of people who want to help you. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:34:53] Yeah, no, I’ve experienced that. I’ve had a lot of fun at, you know, just getting to know some of the older generation that are passionate about shooting. And I think it’s, you know, honestly, they probably recognize it as probably something that needs a bit of new blood to be entered into these clubs and to use these facilities, otherwise they’re just not going to exist much longer. So I think they, you know, they embrace new people coming around and it’s absolutely a hoot.

[00:35:18] And I like how you liken it to a round a golf cause it’s, you know, I think for 15 bucks, you buy a box of shells and you buy two boxes of shells and you can go goof around for a couple hours and shoot a few rounds of skeet or rounds of birds. And it’s, clay birds I should say and boy is it fun. So yeah, I think that’s.

Travis Bader: [00:35:38] Totally.

Dylan Eyers: [00:35:38] A cool, cool thing to do. And it hasn’t really been something that I’ve done a lot of and, but it’s something that I think that, yeah I should be talking about that more and I’m glad you brought it up. So that’s one option, get out there with your shotgun, learn to shoot skeet, tons of lessons there, transitioned to birds. You’ll fill your freezer. 

Travis Bader: [00:35:56] Totally. Totally. And that’s an obsession as well. I mean, we did a podcast with three new hunters that just got into it little by little, and then they got the boat and then they’re getting further and further. Actually they ended up finding a body in the marsh, and so that was what the podcast was about. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:36:14] Woah.

Travis Bader: [00:36:14] That was an interesting one. And ended up getting the hovercraft and RCMP in there. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:36:19] Oh, dear. 

Travis Bader: [00:36:20] Yeah. So that was, and I see, actually MeatEater just ran something about that, a week ago I think it was. Just what to do if you’re in the woods and you find something like that. I can’t say I know too many people that happens too, but I know those three people. Anyways, that one took a bit of a turn. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:36:41] Wow, that’s terrible. Yeah, for sure, that wasn’t where it was expected to go but. 

Travis Bader: [00:36:45] Right. So the one gun, I don’t know who says it, beware the man with one gun, he knows how to use it or beware the person with one gun, they know how to use it. Right. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:36:55] Well, let’s go back to 22 because I think that’s an important conversation that I want to reinforce, just the value of a 22 and that you mentioned it’s cheap to shoot, and that’s one thing I like about the 22, it’s also, it’s not loud. It’s not, like you can take a 22 and go out to a logging / legal shooting area and you can set up some targets and you can just have some good, fun shooting recreation in a safe way. And it’s not super loud, so you’re not going to be like blowing out the entire valley if people are camped down below you or nearby. 

[00:37:39] Which is the reality of shooting high powered firearms is that it can really affect  the whole experience for other people, not in an appropriate range or, you know, well back and away from other recreating people. But definitely spent some time in the Chilliwack valley for both my work and poked around there looking for places to actually shoot. 

Travis Bader: [00:38:05] Right. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:38:05] It’s really like, it’s pretty intense what’s happening, in terms of the shooting culture that’s happening there and pretty intense. So I would encourage people to definitely like get a 22 cause then you can take it with you when you go camping in the summer and drive out of town. And maybe part of your recreational plan is to set aside a couple of hours of practice your marks-person-ship and shoot a bunch. And have some fun with it and hopefully not have an impact on other people as you’re shooting right. 

Travis Bader: [00:38:36] When you say it’s intense, are you talking about Yahoo’s? 

Dylan Eyers: [00:38:39] Oh God, like I’ve never, and I don’t even think it’s, I’m pretty good about it, cause I’ll talk to people. I’ll be like, hey how’s it going? And you know, but it’s intense because there’s a lot of activity going on, there’s a lot of people. 

Travis Bader: [00:38:51] Okay. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:38:51] Who are set up shooting, four by fouring. You know, God knows what they’re out to. It’s like and of course, like I’m a park ranger, right? Like, I can’t help it. Like, you know, I look at everybody through like, hmm are they a camper, I don’t know, I might have to write these guys a ticket. Like, are they going to have an illegal fire? I can’t help it right. 

Travis Bader: [00:39:10] Uh huh.

Dylan Eyers: [00:39:11] So I sort of, what are you up and down as to whether or not they’re going to be, you know, yeah, a good park user but, obviously they’re perfectly in their legal right to set up and shoot, provided they’re doing it safely and there’s nothing wrong with that. I just, the intensity of it, it’s the amount of what’s going on makes it, you know, like, wow okay, this is, lots going on.

Travis Bader: [00:39:33] Do it safely, clean up after yourself, be courteous of others. Basic you know, things that your mother should have taught you, and it goes a long way to ensuring that you still have places in the future to use those firearms and practice with them or hunt. 

[00:39:51] So it’s a, you do see yahoo’s once in a while and I think that’s sort of the scary side of it. But more and more, I’m seeing cleanup groups go out and clean up the outdoors where others may have left, they bring out fridges and microwaves and different things they want to shoot and leave. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:40:09] Apparently if you shoot it enough, like a microwave or a fridge enough times, it’ll eventually biodegrade. That seems to be the policy for some people out there and it’s just like, really?! Well that mattress, if you shoot it with enough shotgun BB’s it’ll just disappear. Okay, I see what you’re trying to do here, but it’s not working pal. 

Travis Bader: [00:40:32] Yeah. Nope. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:40:33] No, no, it’s so disheartening to see that the mess left behind, but you know, a lot of people are out there cleaning up and the Backcountry Hunters and Anglers here, region two team. I mean, they’ve done a number of cleanups just trying to, you know, try to reduce the impact of some of the areas that have been a little bit overwhelmed with the litter left behind by that type of user, but.

Travis Bader: [00:40:54] Right. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:40:55] Like you said, you know, be responsible, be respectful, clean up after yourself and we can all continue to enjoy these places and take advantage of the opportunity to shoot because.

Travis Bader: [00:41:03] And I have a feeling the people listening to this podcast are all in that group, otherwise, they probably wouldn’t find too much of interest in these podcasts. It’s all we can to talk about, right?

Dylan Eyers: [00:41:17] Yeah. Preaching to the converted right? 

Travis Bader: [00:41:18] Exactly. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:41:20] Yeah, totally. Okay that’s cool. Okay, let’s go to the other things about 22 that I was interested in. So the part that was, I thought it was interesting comment was about like replicating the experience and it may be best to have, you know, say going with a high powered rifle because you have to relearn things from a 22. 

Travis Bader: [00:41:43] They used to teach the police back in the day to use 22 revolvers before moving on to the 38 special and the 357 right. And they figured we’ll go over the principles of marksmanship and we’ll get them keyed right in but they found that when they upped it, and then you had the noise to contend with and the recoil, they had to retrain them again.

[00:42:03] And it was not a cost savings that they figured it would be. And so consequently, there is a school of thought that says if you’re using it as a platform to train yourself to the next level, maybe just start at that level and start getting good at that from the get go. So with the 22’s, if you’re telling someone to go get one, I mean, it always comes down to, well, what do you want to do?

[00:42:29] And the person says, I don’t know, I want it to do everything right. The Ruger 10-22, probably one of the most popular 22’s out there. Is a semi-automatic 22, comes with a 10 round magazine and people can accessorize it to their heart’s content and they can make it look old and wooden and tactical and Gucci and whatever they want with that. So that’s a popular one. Or you can go and it doesn’t cost much money for them either. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:42:59] Yeah I know. I call it the bad habit rifle.

Travis Bader: [00:43:04] Right. Oh the  next round will get it, next round will get it. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:43:07] Yeah totally. It’s like, no, no, no. 

Travis Bader: [00:43:09] You know, when I started shooting, so my first gun was a little single shot 22 Steven’s favorite. I think it was from around the turn of the century, falling block design. And it had a custom stock made for it, so it fit my little five-year-old frame. I started shooting I was four, five, got my first rifle and it had a Cooey barrel that was cut down and changed and so that there wasn’t as much weight on the front end of it.

[00:43:39] And it was one round at a time and you have to cock the hammer all the way back and then you pull the trigger. I mean, typically the hammer cock back when you put the lever down, but that was disengaged for the youngster, right? 

Dylan Eyers: [00:43:51] Yeah. 

Travis Bader: [00:43:51] And all I wanted was a semi-auto and I was told no semi-auto until you can make your rounds count with this one, because all you end up doing is counting on that next round right? So when you say the bad habit maker, yeah, I can see it from that perspective. Definitely. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:44:10] Yeah. So what my dad taught me is he bought my brother and I, a Bruno 22 full stock, fairly heavy, robust 22. And what his, what he says it, look, like I want you guys to, you know, for one, have a bolt action rifle, so that you’re used to cycling the shells from a shooting position.

Travis Bader: [00:44:33] Yep. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:44:33] I want this to be a full stock, full length firearm so that you get used to handling a full length firearm that you’ve kind of replicate the same shooting positions as you go and so that was, that was his theory. And that’s one that I’ve carried through to some of my training is kind of follow through with all of the, whether you’re practicing your seated position or standing position or supported positions with that firearm. 

[00:45:03] And you build some confidence in those physical positions and then you eventually once you’ve got the confidence, you need shooting groups and then transitioning. But man, even when you go from a 22 like soon as you said, like 22’s are fun, they’re easy to shoot. Like once you pull the trigger on a 308 or a 243 man, it is like stunningly, it’s shocking. It’s not comfortable.

Travis Bader: [00:45:30] You know, it’s not, yeah for your first time, yeah. Because you don’t know what to expect right. And a part of that process is, so if we’ve talked about the shotgun, what you start learning with that shotgun is the fact that you can shoot light loads, you can shoot heavy loads, right? You can, the lighter loads will have less recoil and he start learning how to manage recoil. And the recoil management is a big part of ensuring that you don’t flinch, right? 

[00:45:59] You want to be able to maintain sight picture throughout your shot. The easiest way to maintain that recoil management with your, let’s say your shotgun, is you’ve got your four point of contact, right? You got your front hand on the fore-stock, you got your shooting hand on the pistol grip, and you’ve got your cheek on the stock and you got the stock firmly into your shoulder. 

[00:46:22] And all of those are pressing into the firearm and it’s one of these things where space equals pain. If, when you first start out, you’re like, man I don’t want to get hurt by this thing, I’m going to hold it away from my shoulder a little bit. Or I’m not really going to touch my cheek down onto the comb of the stock here. Nah, nah, you got to actually get that cheek on there and rest it down firmly. 

[00:46:48] You have to put a little backwards pressure into your shoulder and when you reduce that space, you reduce the pain  and it’s kind of like getting into a boxing ring with Mike Tyson. You give him a couple inches to smack you, man, you’re going to hurt, but you glue his glove to your face, you’re going to get dizzy, but he’s not going to be doing them. It’s like, if you give him a little bit of distance, right? 

Dylan Eyers: [00:47:10] Yeah. So you say that, that little gap creates a bit of room for the firearm to travel and essentially punch you.

Travis Bader: [00:47:16] Right.

Dylan Eyers: [00:47:17] In the shoulder right? So the more you seal up the rifle to your body, whether it’s through your cheek, your arm, through your hands, you’re distributing that shock through your body more evenly. And softening that energy exchange into your body. Yeah.

Travis Bader: [00:47:35] Right and the second thing is, how do you manage that recoil? Now, I remember, so when I was a kid and I started shooting some competitive rifle and I was in the army cadet program and they had Lee Enfields, full-size rifles that were chambered in 22. They sleeved them, made them 22 compatible, so similar to what your father is doing right. And then went on to full bore after that.

[00:47:56] But when you watch these little guys and gals shoot full bore, and you think oh man, how are they going to handle that recoil? And they pull a shot and then they climb back up the mat again and they get in position. They take the shot and then they crawl back up the mat because it’s pushing them back, and they shoot these things all day long because of how that recoil is affecting their body. 

[00:48:20] Whereas if you get a full size adult behind it, that just plunks down and then the absorb all of that recoil, it’s going to be a less enjoyable event. So learning to kind of roll back with it, to let it shove you and not fight it. Like I’ve seen people when they’re learning to shoot, somebody else gets behind and they hold their shoulder from the other side. 

[00:48:39] Oh, I’m going to help him out right. Where the hold the shoulder from the back sorry, from, let’s say they’re in a standing position. You guys can’t see it, who are listening, but Dylan and I we’ve got video going and we can.

Dylan Eyers: [00:48:50] Yep. 

Travis Bader: [00:48:50] Hands where.

Dylan Eyers: [00:48:51] We’re high-fiving through the video and.

Travis Bader: [00:48:53] That’s right. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:48:53] No, no, absolutely. I’ve heard that, like, you know, a more like, well, you’re six foot lots and a fairly solid dude and if you were to shoot a high power, high calibre rifle with lots of recoil. Because your body, unless you’ve trained your body, your body will actually instantly absorb that weight without requiring, whereas someone who is much more slight, will actually like essentially like, we’ll absorb that and kind of fall backwards. But the actual amount of energy transferring into their bodies less than maybe a heavier set person or a bigger person. 

[00:49:33] So I’ve heard that and I’ve seen that too. I mean like Mickey is five foot nothing and a hundred, or a buck-oh-one or something  like that and she’s enjoy shooting way more than I do. And so it’s kinda interesting to see how she’s able to manage recoil, so.

Travis Bader: [00:49:49] Right. Well.

Dylan Eyers: [00:49:50] So with that in mind, like recoil being, probably the thing that people most are concerned about when thinking about a centerfire rifle, I think the majority of people that I work with, that will, that they can, they need a deer gun that they might be able to eventually go shoot a moose or an elk with at some point.

Travis Bader: [00:50:11] Right. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:50:11] And but the primary thing is that, Hey they’re learning still, they need a deer gun, where would you, what are some things you would consider when evaluating what calibre to consider for that new hunter? Who’s trying to buy one firearm, at least for the next three or four years while they enter the hunting world.

Travis Bader: [00:50:31] So we’ll talk about it and then I’ll give you the shortcut. Essentially, you talked about recoil, so recoil, is this going to be energy, right? The energy coming back. For every action, there’s an equal and opposite reaction. You want to have enough energy in that projectile coming out in order to ethically and humanely harvest an animal.

[00:50:52] And they measure that energy by the mass of the projectile going out, is essentially an equation, it’s one half mass times the velocity squared, and that that’ll give you the energy. So what that tells you is the more mass a projectile has, the more energy it’s going to transfer in both directions, right?

[00:51:13] So that’s going to be more recoil and more energy transfer onto the animal that you’re wishing to harvest. But it’s half mass times velocity squared. So if we take a look at the other side, the more velocity we have, man, we can have less mass projectile, but have a higher velocity and still achieve the same or more energy on the target. So there’s a. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:51:44] Can I just put that into, I’m going to say that back to you.

Travis Bader: [00:51:48] Yeah yeah.

Dylan Eyers: [00:51:48] In the language that I think I understand. 

Travis Bader: [00:51:50] Okay. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:51:51] So you have the weight of the bullet.

Travis Bader: [00:51:55] In grains. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:51:55] You have the speed. Yeah, in grains, we call it ingrain and then we have the speed the bullet goes. 

Travis Bader: [00:52:01] Yeah. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:52:01] And the more, the heavier and the faster the bullet goes, the more energy it will impact an animal with.

Travis Bader: [00:52:11] That’s right. And.

Dylan Eyers: [00:52:13] And.

Travis Bader: [00:52:14] Go on, I interrupted. Go on. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:52:16] No that was it, so if you have a, you can have a, and then you can start to play with the factors. You can have a lighter bullet going faster.

Travis Bader: [00:52:25] Right.

Dylan Eyers: [00:52:25] That’ll make the same amount of energy or you can have a heavier bullet going slower.

Travis Bader: [00:52:30] Right. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:52:30] Which will create enough energy or the similar amount of energy so.

Travis Bader: [00:52:34] Right. So when we look at it, and the only reason I butt in, I said grains, right? Because really, I mean, we’re measuring the energy in joules or foot pounds. It’s because when people go to buy their ammunition for their firearm, they might just think, Oh I need rounds for this calibre. But that can come in different weight grain projectiles that come out of there too. So you can have ones that perhaps have a bit more recoil or a bit more energy on the animal as well.

[00:53:03] So, I mean, when we talk about grains, we measure powder in the same way, and I know some people get confused and they’re like, hold on, are you counting those individual grains and no that’s not how it is. Grains is a unit of measurement. I mean, we’ve got, Jewlers will use Troy weight right and I think grains kind of came in there through the English system. Druggist’s use apothecary weight, avoirdupois system was ounces and pounds and stuff.

[00:53:27] And I think between Avoirdupois and Troy, grains are probably measured about the same, if I recall correctly. But it’s just a unit of measurement for weight. So if you say I’ve got a 175 grain bullet right, you going to know that they’re just talking about how much I think weighs. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:53:47] Yep.

Travis Bader: [00:53:47] And.

Dylan Eyers: [00:53:48] 175 grain bullet weighs more than 120 grain bullet.

Travis Bader: [00:53:51] Easy, yeah. And that’s it right? You don’t have to go much.

Dylan Eyers: [00:53:54] That’s it.

Travis Bader: [00:53:55] Don’t have to go much further than that one, but. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:53:58] Weighs about announce, maybe. 

Travis Bader: [00:53:59] Yeah. But now we know, I can have that one rifle and I might be able to get different ammunition for it for maybe something that I wanted penetrate a little bit deeper and that penetration is going to come through projectile shape, right. And that projectile shape affects a ballistic coefficient. And that’s a fancy way of saying just how it cuts through the air, right? 

[00:54:22] The higher, the ballistic coefficient, the better it cuts through the air. But as well, it would be like, let’s say you have a needle, a needle can go through something pretty darn good, but it’s not going to be transferring the energy the same way that a hammer would, right. A hammer is going to probably not penetrate through something that well, but it’s going to transfer a lot of that energy. So these are all kind of things that people can kind of keep in the back of their mind. And I told you, there’s going to be a shortcut at the end of this. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:54:50] Yeah. Yeah. I love it. When I asked you to talk about this topic, you’re like I can kind of get in the weeds a little bit when I get into this stuff. I’m enjoying this so.

Travis Bader: [00:55:00] I gave an example. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:55:02] Yeah.

Travis Bader: [00:55:03] I gave an example to you because I said there is, CBC asked me to opine on something one time and I turned them down and instead I referred them to another individual and afterwards I listened to that individual’s answer. And although that answer, in my opinion, was technically wrong, it was the correct answer for CBC, cause it was so clear, so concise and to the point. And really on the technical side, who cares what he got across was right. So yes, I can get into the weeds a bit. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:55:33] But this is good. So let’s, I think it’s an important thing, I mean, these are things that as people can pick up on some of this stuff and they can dig deeper into this and.

Travis Bader: [00:55:43] As they wish, yeah. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:55:44] And so it’s important to recognize that bullets have different shapes. Some are, fly through the air better.

Travis Bader: [00:55:51] Sure.

Dylan Eyers: [00:55:51] Then others and others do a better job of essentially killing an animal. Like they’re designed to hit an animal and they’re, we call it opening up or getting like, mushrooming out. And then eventually well, bullets are actually designed to try and like, when they hit the animal, they’re kind of designed to stop. They’re ideally, they’re going to hit the animal, drive, penetrate the flesh through the heart and lungs and then ultimately stop there.

[00:56:23] They want to dissipate all of their energy in the animal to maximize the purpose of that bullet, which is to kill the animal. Other bullets are designed to fly really stable and flat for a long distance and be extremely accurate at distance, but they may be less effective at that job of potentially hitting an animal and opening up and killing it. 

[00:56:45] So there’s always a bit of a balance between, what that bullet’s designed to do and its performance, whether it’s for target shooting or the performance, if it’s designed to be a load that is intended to shoot into, to open up and kill an animal. So that’s sort of where we dive into that bullet world and get to know what different bullet manufacturers and how they perform it at different. And they all perform at different speeds too, it’s fascinating stuff. You can go down and go deep into it right? You know, but.

Travis Bader: [00:57:17] What’s the guys name? Bryan Litz or lilts, litz? He’s got a few books out there. I mean, if you really want to geek out on that kind of stuff, there’s a guy to go check out his. But and that this is exactly what you say here, which is why we have laws that say, if you’re going to be using certain types of ammunition for harvesting animals, it has to be expanding ammunition.

[00:57:39] It’s gotta be designed to be able to open up and transfer that energy. And there are, I guess, different schools of thought within hunters, some who say, man I wanted to the projectile to go in and stop in the middle of that animal and just completely make your primary wound channel and your secondary cavity.

[00:57:55] And it just, I want a lot of damage go right through. Some say, I don’t want it to stop till it gets to the skin on the other side, right? Like basically as much penetration without over penetrating. And then I’ve heard some say, no, I want through and through, I want it to go in and do some damage and then come out the other side cause it gives a better blood trail to track. 

[00:58:12] Ehh, you know, once he started getting there, here, you’re using your expanding tip projectiles and you’re probably cranking out a little too much power. And when we start looking at this power thing, when people start saying, I want one gun, quite often, they say bigger is better. And bigger is not necessarily better because the worst thing that you can do as a new firearms owner is ingrain a flinch, flinching yourself, right from the get go. That’s hard to overcome a flinch. 

[00:58:45] Are you still there Dylan? All right, so right about now I realize that Dylan is having some technical difficulties on his end and this voiceover, well, this voiceover is only here to serve as a segue between the first half and the second half. I don’t know where I was, because we’ve been down for a little bit, the joys of doing online podcasting, this is our second time. This is a second time Dylan that you and first time, your battery, you forgot to plug in your computer, but this time it wasn’t your fault.

Dylan Eyers: [00:59:16] How do you remember these things? God. Okay, great. 

Travis Bader: [00:59:20] I dunno. Everything, it’s like a steel trap. 

Dylan Eyers: [00:59:24] Yeah. You’re pulling out these quotes are these like, yeah. I love it. I love it. But yeah, no, I definitely, yeah. I just had a malfunction of the whole system here, but I appreciate your patience and we’ll get back to it. So we were kind of talking about like, you know, bullet coefficient and talking about bullet, the variation. 

[00:59:39] And I think this is a cool thing you’re talking about was like, this is the variation between, you know, even if you go with one calibre rifle, you still have a lot of options as to whether you want to shoot heavy bullets out of it, or a lighter bullets or and the bullet configuration, how they’re designed and shape has a different, so.

[00:59:59] You know, it’s a kind of a cool conversation because as much as a variation in the calibre, which is where I want to kind of lead us here, there’s also within any calibre there’s variation in terms of the weight, the design of the bullet, what it’s designed to do. And then you even mentioned about grains.

[01:00:16] How many grains of gunpowder that you put behind the bullet to shoot it, which makes it perform differently. So it really is a complicated discussion as you get down and start talking about bullet design and the configuration of the actual cartridge. 

Travis Bader: [01:00:31] Right.

Dylan Eyers: [01:00:32] So on that note, what do you think is the most versatile cartridge, like  most versatile calibre. 

Travis Bader: [01:00:39] So total wormholes. So I’m going to throw out okay. Because if someone’s getting into it and they want to use it for hunting, I mean in British Columbia anyways, we don’t have any restrictions on our big game hunting until you get to bison, right. So bison’s what? 175 grain, 2000 foot pound, or more energy at a 100 meters. So aside from that, you’re kind of free to use whatever you want when you’re hunting anything but bison. 

[01:01:13] So you’re going to want to, I mean, there are some centerfire cartridges that just don’t have much oomph behind them that it just wouldn’t be ethical to use. But if you’re starting out and you’re getting into it, 243 Winchester, a 6.5 Creedmoor, 7mm-08, 308 Winchester, 270 Winchester, 30-06, I mean, they’re all great choices. And 30-06 was always the old standby. Everyone says, ah just get a 30-06, you can load up, you can load down, go with that. 

[01:01:46] 6.5 Creedmoor has been gaining a heck of a lot more popularity lately. It’s got its detractors, it’s got the people who just swear by it, but it’s going out of there at a faster rate. And the big thing it has going for it is, very low recoil and still great muzzle energy. Great ballistic coefficient, cuts through the air and it’ll take over most of the game that you want within British Columbia, most game within North America.

[01:02:17] I pulled some good size black bears with a 6.5 Creedmoor just this year. It comes down to your familiarity with the firearm and your ability to put a round where it matters, because if you’re shooting something in the tail or the foot, I mean, maybe a needle, a canon behind you, but if you take your time and you close that distance, your practice.

[01:02:42] Everything that you’re learning through, EatWild and everything you’re learning through Silvercore and put that round where it matters, then you don’t really need a huge honking calibre to do the job. And in fact, I did pod, sorry, I’ll let you go. I did a podcast with the fellow, you and I both know with Marshall Lowen and he was, he recounted us.

Dylan Eyers: [01:03:06] Oh yeah.

Travis Bader: [01:03:06] Yeah and he recounted a story of a indigenous woman who would use a 22 for moose hunting. And he says, isn’t that hard? He says, she says, the hard part is getting the animal home, right? So shot placement really is where it’s at. 

Dylan Eyers: [01:03:24] I heard an interesting discussion and it was about like the sort of, this guy went from hunting, being a rifle hunter to a bow hunter, and then you really get focused on shot placement with the bow. And with a bow, like you really are just trying to poke a hole in the lung with a blade essentially. And then you hope that that one hole in the lung causes bleeding in the lungs and dies. 

[01:03:52] And the point I thought it was interesting, was the individuals that, you know, it was so it’s just like, it just puts the whole discussion around, you know, is 243 enough calibre to take down a deer or a moose or it’s just like, it just like there’s. 243 causes catastrophic damage to lungs.

Travis Bader: [01:04:15] Absolutely.

Dylan Eyers: [01:04:16] Beyond the, put  any potential of any bow hunter out there. And there’s bow hunters, shooting moose and bison, anything else. So like tha, like going to your point about shot placement. Any any of those high powered centerfire rifles will cause enough damage to the lungs. If you cause damage. If you put a hole in the lungs, those animals will die, they will die quickly and efficiently and ethically. So really a lot of it is about shot placement. 

[01:04:42] Really what I think where people start to think about, you know, increasing the distance they can shoot and carry energy out to longer distances, it becomes a bit of a discussion. And whereas some of the lighter rifles lose energy cause they’re, don’t have as much gunpowder behind the bullet on a smaller rifle. Like I have a 300 Winchester Magnum and it’s a gigantic cartridge and it makes a huge bang.

Travis Bader: [01:05:12] Sure it does.

Dylan Eyers: [01:05:13] Yeah. 

Travis Bader: [01:05:13] Boots like a mule. 

Dylan Eyers: [01:05:15] Yeah, I don’t like it. But it, you know, I have every confidence that when I’m shooting an elk at 250 to 300 yards, which is my outside range of comfort on an animal of that size, that it’s got plenty, it still has 2000 foot pounds of energy to cause devastation to the lungs. 

[01:05:36] And if I miss the lungs and hit in the shoulder, it’s gonna break enough shoulder and eventually work its way into the lungs that I’m going to is going to be a dead elk, 100%, for sure. Whereas maybe with the 243 at 300 yards, if you hit the shoulder, it may not penetrate through the shoulder and into the lungs.

[01:05:57] And I think that’s kind of where the discussion starts to go a little bit sideways or gets a little bit more relevant, but if your shot placement is perfect, it’s all irrelevant. It’s all like, yeah the 22 will do enough damage to the lungs, as long as you get it between the ribs you know? 

Travis Bader: [01:06:10] So Colonel Townsend Whelen, and he was a guy for many, many years, everyone recorded him and he says a thousand foot pounds of energy that’s what you need, right so.

Dylan Eyers: [01:06:20] Yeah.

Travis Bader: [01:06:20] Like full stop. And everyone says, Oh, we need a thousand foot pounds. So if it’s at X distance, I want have a thousand foot pounds at that distance in order to have ethical and humane. The way that modern bullets are constructed in modern ammo’s being made. 

[01:06:35] And some people have different thoughts on it, but that’s always been the general knowledge. And when you look at how you’re going to be putting an animal down it’s going to die through, realistically, one of two ways. One way you’ve got a CNS shot, a central nervous system shot, so that’s going to be brain or spinal cord, right?

[01:06:55] Second way is going to be that you induce hypovolemic shock, essentially. You induce hypovolemic shock through massive cardiopulmonary decompression, and that’s going to be interruption of its ability to breathe or circulate oxygen through its body, through heart or through lungs. And the fastest way to fix that is to have a bleed out quickly, right? 

[01:07:17] So you can put a whole bunch of rounds into something. The more rounds, the faster you’re going to introduce that shock, but you’re also wasting a whole ton of meat too, right? So those are some of the considerations.

[01:07:30] When it comes to rifles, because just a segue back to your point, just tell him what to get a Tikka T3X, very popular, the new Sauer 100, popular. Mauser M18’s, popular and affordable, right? So those are a few things that the listeners might want to look at. They’re all Mauser action, bolt action rifles. 

Dylan Eyers: [01:07:52] That’s simple. 

Travis Bader: [01:07:53] Simple. 

Dylan Eyers: [01:07:53] So it’s bolt that bolt action for sure. The, well let’s not, we’re not gonna let you off the hook that simple, you listed like seven different calibres. If you had to buy one calibre for your son, who’s going to turn, say he’s turning 16 years old. 

Travis Bader: [01:08:11] I’ve got him at 6.5 Creedmoor, that’s all my son shoots. And my son shoots that because that’s what my wife shoots and I wish you’d sat because International Barrels in Abbotsford spun up a barrel in 6.5 Creedmoor for me just to test out. And it keeps us all on the same ammo platform when we’re out there, rather than everybody using different ammo. 

[01:08:32] 6.5 Creedmoor was something that I was interested in from an accuracy standpoint. Did some reading about it, wanted to see how the thing performed out in the field and so far, I’ve been impressed with it.

[01:08:45] I’m using the Hornady ELDX bullets in them, and it’s putting the animals down quickly and humanely. And, but that’s just because I happened to get it from International Barrels. They made this deadly accurate barrel and I ended up just going with that for my wife and a son cause low recoil. 

Dylan Eyers: [01:09:09] Yeah. And that’s so I think that’s, to me, that’s the point I want to key on is that the comfort of shooting? So I’m a big advocate of the 243, the 6.5 or the 7-08, because all three of those guns have significantly less recoil than a 30-06 or a 270, both of which are awesome calibre’s.

[01:09:29] But the three that I just listed, they have probably 30% to 40% less recoil, so they’re just more comfortable to shoot. And I think, I mean, this is something that I suffered from as a kid. I, you know, the first guy in that my dad bought me about a 6.5 pound, 30-06 when I was 13 or 14 years old  and handed to me with a couple of blocks as 180 grain Federal bullets. 

[01:09:55] And I went and shot it and just beat the shit out of myself and I maintain that same fear of recoil and well, and I still have a flinch that I work on at all time. And I have improved my shooting over the years, but the thing that improved my shooting the most is that when I bought a 7mm-08 and I took it to the range and I was like, wow, this feels to me like I’m shooting at 22.

[01:10:20] It’s just, I’m not afraid of it, I’m comfortable. I just started building on like, I make a good shot and I make another good shot and I make another good shot, I got a good group. And that confidence just like, helped me build up my confidence, cause I could never comfortably shoot the 30-06, I never enjoyed shooting it.

[01:10:40] I ended up winning a 300 when I was, you know, somewhere in my mid twenties at a BC Wildlife Federation conference so now I’ve got this  beautiful Tikka 300, which is a great elk, moose gun. And I had it really got into elk hunting then so it was, you know, effective for hunting elk, but I hated shooting it and I still do actually.

[01:10:59] Like, I’m glad like, one shot a year, great, go to the range. Two inches high at a 100 yards, done, back in the case, let’s go elk hunting. But I’ll sit there and I’ll actually shoot with my 7-08 and I will build my confidence and comfort at shooting at 300 yards. And just trying to, I just enjoy shooting. And that’s the first time that I didn’t enjoy shooting until I was basically in my thirties, like which is something to be said for that. So yeah, I liked the call and the 6.5.

Travis Bader: [01:11:28] And that’s not because I’m married to the cartridge. It’s just happened to be something I was testing out and it works well. But all the cartridges you mentioned there, recoil is going to be one of the things that puts people off the most. The fit of the firearm, you want to make sure it fits to you. Recoil can be mitigated through proper technique, it can be mitigated through having a heavier firearm because that’s going to change felt recoil.

[01:11:51] The energy recoil is going to be the same, but the length of time it takes, or the recoiled impact on you is going to be dissipated over a longer time period, so it’s going to feel more like a shove than a sharp push. And then a good recoil pad on there, or even a muzzle break if you don’t mind the loud concussive.

Dylan Eyers: [01:12:10] Blowing your buddies eardrums.

Travis Bader: [01:12:11] Exactly. So that can all help. That can all help. 

Dylan Eyers: [01:12:16] Yeah. 

Travis Bader: [01:12:17] And.

Dylan Eyers: [01:12:18] Totally.

Travis Bader: [01:12:18] The real shortcut to all of that, and we’re talking about different, like kind of calibre’s and guns and models on the rest and you’re talking about the Vancouver urbanite living in an apartment, go to Reliable Gun and Tackle on Fraser street, and they have a wide selection and they’ll take you down and they’ll take you through it.

[01:12:35] And they just get those same questions asked day in, day out and they’re going to find something that works with your budget and that’ll work for you, or your local gun store. I mean, I just say Reliable cause you’re talking about Vancouver there. That would be, that would be the shortcut, I’d take this knowledge and go on and say, I heard Dylan and Travis talkin about this. 

Dylan Eyers: [01:12:53] Can we, I gotta say, I got a 7-08 or a 6.5, but I think the other one that, that falls into that same category that’s worth mentioning it, is the 308. And I think the 308 is kind of the, both the 6.5 Creedmoor and the 7-08 are all built on the same cartridge as a 308. I think it’s the same cartridge? The same with the 6.5 yeah. 

Travis Bader: [01:13:19] Right. 

Dylan Eyers: [01:13:19] It just it’s different sized bullet that they’re shooting out of the same cartridge, but they’re all relative. They’re short action rifle they’re, so that means they’re not, they’re a shorter full, like the bullet  length of the cartridge length is short. Which is, there’s some advantage of that because the gun has overall shorter. 

[01:13:35] In some cases you save an inch versus the 7-08 is a whole inch longer, the bullet or the cartridge is an inch longer. So you just get that much more metal and around the chamber and stuff. So some merit to that, but the 308 is kind of got that balance of recoil, but it still will shoot a heavier bullet, if you.

Travis Bader: [01:13:56] It’ll take everything.

Dylan Eyers: [01:13:57] Going bison hunting. It’ll take everything. And yeah most, it’s super, the bullet, that’s other thing to think about the affordability of the bullets. Like 308 ammo was by far the cheapest ammo, so you could shoot lots of it if you’re going to shoot lots.

Travis Bader: [01:14:10] It’s affordability and availability, especially if you’re going to be out in Timbuktu with a firearm, you want to have something that you can find ammo for if you need it. And that was why I think 6.5 took a while for people to kind of adopt because up until recently, it wasn’t as ubiquitous.

Dylan Eyers: [01:14:26] Yeah, totally. Totally. So the only, and then just thinking about like, you know, the only downside of going with like a 308 or sorry, a 30-06 or a 270 you know, ultimately is how you manage recoil. Like you said, there’s options for managing recoil. Those rifles kind of do everything if you want them, particularly the, yeah, if you’re a long range shooter, the 270 is a great option. 

[01:14:47] If you want to be a moose hunter, an elk hunter  and a deer hunter to the 30-06 is about as good as it gets, but again, you’re managing recoil. So I think we kinda, I think we kinda covered that off a little bit. 

Travis Bader: [01:14:59] I think so. I think for more or less, if they want to delve in more, I mean, they can always email us. Phone us up.

Dylan Eyers: [01:15:04] Sure email us. And I like your suggestion. It’s just go see  the guys or the folks I should say down at Reliable there they, what I like about Reliable is that they’re very accessible shop. Like they could see a new hunter walking to the door and they make you feel welcome and make you feel like it’s not a, that, cause it’s a fairly intimidating experience walking into a gun store. And they do a good job of yeah, making everybody feel comfortable. 

Travis Bader: [01:15:30] Yeah.

Dylan Eyers: [01:15:30] On that note, I was going to ask you, this is one of the questions I had and as we were gonna try and wrap up here I think, but I’m curious what you think the value is in the market of say like a new hunter going, Hey, should I buy a used rifle or a new rifle? Do you have any thoughts on which direction to go?

Travis Bader: [01:15:47] Yeah, get new. Get a new rifle, unless you’re getting it from a reputable source. It will stand behind it afterwards because a lot of, when you’re getting brand new into this, you want to know that your equipment works. And if you’re buying something used off of uncle Bob, or if they find an advertisement in a buy and sell somewhere and you pick the thing up, there’s a whole bunch of questions that you’re gonna have.

[01:16:13] Like, did the person mess with it ahead of time? I mean, you never know how there’s a lot of backyard gunsmiths and people who get it a dremmel tool and they figure that, hey, I can do whatever I want and now I’m a gunsmith, I got a dremmel. If you know what you’re doing, by all means get used to it right. If you’re into it for a while and you’ve been around firearms, you know what you’re looking for, get a used firearm. 

[01:16:35] I mean, there’s a possibility to save some good money and get some great deals. But if you’re just getting into it, the price of some of these new firearms that shoot extremely well out of the box it’s just, to me, it doesn’t make sense to delve in the used market as your first firearm.

Dylan Eyers: [01:16:53] I totally agree. Like there’s not, I mean, the one thing that’s great about, if you’re going to be that person that buys lots of firearms, it’s kind of like having money in the bank. Like firearms don’t typically go down in value all that much. The resale value is pretty high on a well cared for rifle.

[01:17:08] So the flip side of that is that if you’re thinking that you’re going to go, you want to save a few hundred bucks and you’re going to explore the use market. A good quality firearm has been well cared for is going to be basically the same cost as a new one. It’s incredible that, you know, that resale value, often guns, the manufacturers, it’s just not available.

[01:17:29] Some of the calibre’s or the manufacturer, the type of type of rifle. So I’ve got rifles in my closet that are worth more now than when I bought them three or four years ago, like it’s kinda unique that way. So I don’t think there’s a huge benefit of going used. And like you said, there’s the concern of what was the history of the rifle before so.

[01:17:47] And even if everything’s fine on a firearm, but you’re not hitting the target and then you’re sitting in the back of your head thinking, is it because the rifles not working as it should, did somebody monkey with it, right. At least you can eliminate some of those variables. 

[01:17:59] Well, and then the last thing about used firearms, I’ve got some firearms I don’t like, cause I’ve never been able to shoot them well. 

Travis Bader: [01:18:04] Sure. 

Dylan Eyers: [01:18:04] So there’s something fundamentally wrong with me or something fundamentally wrong with the rifle and I might consider selling that rifle and passing it on because I just never been able to get comfortable with it. So most.

Travis Bader: [01:18:14] That’s right.

Dylan Eyers: [01:18:14] The firearms that I like, that I shoot well with.

Travis Bader: [01:18:18] You hold onto them.

Dylan Eyers: [01:18:18] Are still in my locker. So like the ones that are out there, I mean the only way I see, like there’s benefit of going with some, where you get some benefit is maybe in the optics part. Like you might find it like an old Remington with a good Leupold golden scope on it for five or 600 bucks or something like that. And you may be getting $300 with optics and it’s a three or $400 gun and the package is probably better than you might buy for the same value in the new market. 

[01:18:47] There’s maybe those types of deals around and maybe if you have an uncle or a family member that you know, is passing on some guns and moving them out, there may be some options to look at. But I think, the other piece and the last question, I’m gonna ask you a Travis before I let you go and.

Travis Bader: [01:19:01] Yeah, yeah.

Dylan Eyers: [01:19:01] Enjoy the rest of your evening is, you know, people come up against the question of whether they should buy a stainless rifle or a blued rifle when thinking about their first rifle. Do you have any initial thoughts on where the value is there?

Travis Bader: [01:19:13] Yeah, stainless.

Dylan Eyers: [01:19:14] That was easy. 

Travis Bader: [01:19:16] Getting your first rifle, I mean, you’re brand new to the game of learning how to clean it and learning how to care for it. Blued firearms are great and there’s nothing wrong with them. Really, if you’re learning about how to care for your firearm and you’re going to be on the field for a few days, save yourself the hassle and just get something that’s going to stain less. It’s not that it’s not going to rust, right?

[01:19:43] It’s, can still very well rust and the parts inside it can rust, and if you don’t like the colour of it colour of the silver firearm, paint it. Or they, you can actually, there is chemical processing, you can blacken stainless firearm, you can buy them like that too. But the old school of thought was that’s stainless didn’t shoot as well as a, let’s say blued carbon steel firearm. 

[01:20:11] The advancements in metallurgy and the way it’s put together, you know, most of the high end shooters are shooting stainless barrels. So I would be inclined as a brand new shooter to go that route. And then you can play around from there. I don’t know, what would you say? 

Dylan Eyers: [01:20:29] Oh, I mean, I grew up with stainless guns, cause that was when my first kind I had and I did buy a like a beautiful wood stock Stier with a blued barrel. 

Travis Bader: [01:20:43] Oh yeah.

Dylan Eyers: [01:20:43] That was that 7-08 that I came across somewhere along.

Travis Bader: [01:20:46] Nice.

Dylan Eyers: [01:20:46] The way. And, beautiful gun, I love shooting it, but like I like the thought of taking it on a sheep hunt or something just like, I was like, no, I can’t do that. I’ll just, just destroy it.

Travis Bader: [01:20:57] And that’s it, like, you nailed another point in there because really who cares if it’s rusted? I mean, will it still shoot as long as it’s not rusty in the bore? It’ll so shoot, but it’s the worry.

Dylan Eyers: [01:21:09] It’s like jewelry man.

Travis Bader: [01:21:10] That’s it, you got it. Right. So if you’re going out and breaking the bank to buy some brand new first firearm you’ve ever had and you just got the most expensive pretty thing out there, are you really going to want to use it, right? 

Dylan Eyers: [01:21:25] Well, I’ve got a hunting partner, Jenny P, who is often on the podcast. She has a nice Micro Midas Browning a firearm, and this is a real piss off. If you’re a female or if you’re a short statured hunter with a short pole, like the pole, you have very few options for gun manufacturers that make firearms in a smaller rifles for ’em in stainless steel. In fact, there’s almost no options. 

[01:21:57] The majority of the manufacturers make youth model rifles, but I think in their mind, they’re like, well, they’re, if you’re a youth you’re going to grow out of this gun, so you don’t really need a stainless long-term gun. But you know, I’ve been down this path a number of times with female friends of mine who are shorter stature, and we’re looking for a smaller gun and there’s very few firearms on the market that are both stainless steel, give you an array of calibre’s and come in more micro sizes.

[01:22:27] And the one that actually helped my cousin, Jess, and then now just Mickey buy, is a Remington Model Seven and it’s a short stock and a short barrel and it does come in a stainless barrel, beautiful little gun and. But there’s very few options that are available to smaller statutes shooters. So something that the industry could start cluing into that, you know, women and little people want to hunt in the mountains too, and want to have the versatility of a stainless gun.

Travis Bader: [01:23:01] Totally. Or just make it modular. So you can just, rather than having to take it to a gunsmith and chop it down, get one that you can just take spacers out, right? You can sell to.

Dylan Eyers: [01:23:11] Of course.

Travis Bader: [01:23:12] A whole wide. From a marketing standpoint, I don’t know.  But you’re right. You’re right. 

Dylan Eyers: [01:23:18] Not a lot of options. And so anyway, I think it was talking about Jenny P, who I, you know, we’ve done huge adventure hunts together. And this poor, like Browning Micro Midas that she has is, which is a Woodstock and a blued barrel, like it’s just been beat to shit. Like we took, last year we took 150 kilometres of whitewater rafting, you know, knocking on the bottom of a boat. It was, we went on a bear, saltwater fishing bear hunt. So her rifle is like knocking around on the front of my boat in saltwater conditions, you know.

Travis Bader: [01:23:48] So let me ask you this, is it rusty?

Dylan Eyers: [01:23:52] Oh, yeah. I mean, it’s rusted up, but the barrel is probably fine. 

Travis Bader: [01:23:57] Okay. So yeah, you know, it’s one of these things that you really got to stay on top of it if you’re going to be in those conditions for a long period of time. There’s nothing wrong with blued, there really isn’t. But for a first gun, if you had the money to spend and your looking for a little bit easier maintenance and the rest of yourself, I’d lean towards stainless.

Dylan Eyers: [01:24:15] Yeah, I think stainless is, I mean, if you can afford it is probably 30% more I think, like if you go across the board to invest in the 20 or 30% more. But I think you’ll get that back right away when you, the first time you get out there, you know, you come back to your tent, it’s soaking wet and you’re gone soaking wet, and you can’t do anything to really dry it out cause you’re sleeping in a pup tent for the night and it rains for four more days after that. Like it’s a lot, it’s really nice having that stainless in that type of conditions.

Travis Bader: [01:24:40] Or they could listen to the tips and tricks on the EatWild podcast about how to care for your firearm, when out in the field. 

Dylan Eyers: [01:24:46] Well, that’s great. We shouldn’t mention that. So the last time that we talked, we hung out, we talked about, we had gun care in the field and storage and that was a lot of fun. And I said, that was the one that probably got the most feedback from listeners. Just like enjoyed just getting that, those tips. But this has been really fun, hanging out with you Travis.

[01:25:04] I think, we should do this more often and hang out. I think we’ve got a bit of a plan. I taught that I talked to Mark Hall of the Hunter Conservationist podcast and I think it’d be fun having a longer conversation around like hunter certification and training for firearms for new hunters and the standards that we apply. 

[01:25:24] And what that looks like when people get out there in the field. I think there’s a great conversation there. So I’m hoping that we can meet up in the next couple of months and have that conversation with Mark and you up for that? 

Travis Bader: [01:25:35] How fun would that be? And I think between the three of us, we could probably have an opinion or two on the subject matter. Perhaps. 

Dylan Eyers: [01:25:45] Yeah, for sure. Well, I think we’ve all done a lot to, you know, I think everybody at the same, when it comes to new hunters and ensuring that people have the support they need and the mentorship. I think that’s something that we’re all talking about and thinking about. And, we know how hard it is for new hunters to get in and get involved. So Travis, if people want to find you, where would they find you? 

Travis Bader: [01:26:03] So if they’re looking for the Silvercore podcast, you can download that anywhere fine podcasts are distributed, so we’re essentially on all the platforms or YouTube, or you can go to Silvercore.ca and I believe we’ve got blog posts with the full transcripts. And if you have ADHD like myself and you just want to get right to the point, you can find it right there.

Dylan Eyers: [01:26:26] Oh, cool. Let’s take it to the next level, that’s awesome and that. Awesome.

Travis Bader: [01:26:31] Hey.

Dylan Eyers: [01:26:31] And then of course Travis.

Travis Bader: [01:26:32] Of course, you’re going to have a copy of this transcript as well. If this is a share cast, I’ll give you a copy and there you go. Good to go. 

Dylan Eyers: [01:26:38] There you go. I learned something. Yeah, for sure. Awesome, well I really enjoyed having you on here, Travis. Hey, so everybody else out there, thanks so much for hanging out with Travis and I, you know, for sure we’re still living COVID life, I just want to say like we’re all on lockdown here, no doubt you know, some people that are really challenged right now with maintaining social connection. 

[01:26:56] So I just say, remind you to get out there, call up those friends of yours, have a conversation, reach out to them because I know that people are suffering now. Just something I’ve been thinking about lots right now is as these days are getting shorter.  Yeah, stay connected with those people you care about and reach out.

[01:27:10] and I’ll be doing more podcasts coming up and if you’re looking for a gift for this Christmas, I’m rolling out my EatWild webinars series, is a great idea for the hunter in your life to give them a gift of learning and hanging out with Dylan and friends on the webinar series.

Travis Bader: [01:27:30] I can vote for that one because I sat in on one of your webinars and that was a fun time. That was a good thing, check it out. 

Dylan Eyers: [01:27:35] Oh, yeah, there are tons of fun, thanks for that Travis. I enjoy doing them and usually get an audience of, you know, 20, 25 people and a few experts and we just got a presentation to follow and, yeah do our best to equip people on a topic that I think is important to be a better hunter. So yeah, they’ve been fun.

Travis Bader: [01:27:51] Dylan, it was a great idea. Love doing these things. I look forward to the next one we do.

Dylan Eyers: [01:27:55] Yeah, right on, that was a lot of fun.

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