Ep. 72: BC Supercast Proposed Region 7B Regulation ChangesThis week, Silvercore Podcast host Travis Bader shared the mic with other BC podcasters to speak on the extremely important matter pertaining to proposed regulation changes in region 7B.
Oppose the regulations:
Howl for wildlife:
WSSBC Talking points (the facts):
Google the podcast names below for further info about each of them:
- Beyond The Kill
- Come Out Heavy
- Mindful Hunter
- Talk is Sheep
- Eat Wild
- Focus Hunting
- Wilderness Locals
- Hunt Hard Talk Free
[00:00:00] I'm Travis Bader, and this is the Silvercore Podcast. Silvercore has been providing its
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[00:00:52] I was recently invited to attend a special group podcast with hosts across BC where we discussed the proposed changes to the peace region 7B hunting regulations. These regulations will have the effect of setting precedent. We want to ensure that they're properly thought through and implemented.
[00:01:11] Please check out the show notes for links where you can learn more. So this is a giant, I mean, I've been calling this the super podcast , but, uh, this is a giant podcast with a whole bunch of guests or a whole bunch of hosts of podcasts around, around our province here. Um, we had, had started a group chat and had, had, had been talking about the proposed regulations, um, in size 7B that are going on right now that have to do with moose and caribou.
[00:01:42] And, uh, basically this is gonna be, All of us host from the different podcasts talking about what we think and we're kind of trying to show our, um, combined opposition to this proposed bill or proposed regulation. Right. So I will throw this thing over to actually, let's all go around the room. Let's start with, uh, Kevin from Focus and, and let's introduce
[00:02:08] ourselves here.
[00:02:09] Right on. Yeah.
[00:02:10] Kevin Toye: Uh, thanks Ty for setting us all up. That's awesome, buddy. Uh, good to see all the, all the podcast hosts from BC up. It's, uh, it's pretty awesome. But, uh, anyway, Kevin Toye, I got, uh, the Focus of Hunting podcast. I'm coming at you from Kelowna, B.C.
[00:02:25] Tyler Freel: Awesome. And then let's do come out Heavy Boys. All right?
[00:02:29] Devon Gassoff: Yeah. Thanks for having us on. Devon Gassoff Speaking here. Come Out Heavy podcast and I'm coming at you from Solo Canne BC.
[00:02:38] Curtis Gassoff: And, uh, I'm Curtis Gassoff and I'm co-host of Come Out Heavy Heavy Podcast and I'm coming at you from Cornell BC.
[00:02:45] Tyler Freel: Wicked. Then, uh, Jay.
[00:02:48] Jay Nichol: Yeah, Jay Nichol, host of the Mindful Hunter at Vancouver bc.
[00:02:53] Tyler Freel: Then we got Nolan.
[00:02:55] Nolan Osborne: Hey, I'm Nolan. I'm in North Vancouver here, and, uh, I co-host The Beyond the Kill podcast.
[00:03:02] Tyler Freel: Then we got Kyle and Greg.
[00:03:06] Kyle Stelter: Yeah, thanks, Ty. Kyle Stelter Talk is Sheep, uh, podcast for Wild Sheep BC and I'm in Victoria.
[00:03:13] Greg Rensmeg: Hey, Greg Rensmeg, uh, actually the only one here, not a podcast host, secretary for the Wild Sheep Society of BC and the chair of the Government Engagement Committee.
[00:03:24] So I'm the one clogging up all your feeds lately.
[00:03:27] Tyler Freel: There you go. And then, uh, Dylan.
[00:03:31] Dylan Eyers: Hey there, it's Dylan from the Eat Wild Podcast, and I'm joining from Vancouver on the traditional territories of the Squamish, the sle, and the Musqueam First Nation.
[00:03:39] Tyler Freel: There you go. And then, uh, Aaron.
[00:03:43] Aaron Mathais: Hey everybody, it's Aaron.
[00:03:44] I feel, uh, I feel like I'm coming from way up north compared to all of you. I'm representing straight outta Dawson Creek in Northern British Columbia, and I've got, um, coming from Corlane Sporting Edge and Hunt Hard Talk free podcast.
[00:03:59] Tyler Freel: And then Travis.
[00:04:00] Travis Bader: Oh I see you saved the best for last here?
[00:04:03] Tyler Freel: Well, I think I was going last, so yes
[00:04:06] Travis Bader: Hi. Thanks for having me on the podcast. Travis Bader, host of the Silvercore podcast.
[00:04:10] Tyler Freel: Right on. And then me, I, I'm ti Tyler from the Wilderness Locals podcast. So, and then I will turn the floor over to Jay here and we'll get this,
[00:04:19] uh, conversation going.
[00:04:22] Jay Nichol: Yeah, right on. Thanks a lot, Ty.
[00:04:24] So, I think in order to just set the stage, just for everybody listening, just to clear up what is going on, y you know, and keep things pretty high level because I do think there's a lot, there's a lot of intricacies in the topic that we're about to discuss, and I think it's wise for us to talk about the things we know and don't talk about, the things we don't know about.
[00:04:45] So in response to a Supreme Court decision that was made, that involved the kind of hunting options and hunting rights, Um, of a particular First Nation band. They, the province, has proposed significant changes to the hunting regulations in region 7B, and these would primarily result in, you know, a 50% reduction in moose harvest, all Moose going to an LEH, and, uh, caribou being shut down in 7B as well.
[00:05:27] And I think something else that's worth noting that some people know about and some people don't know about is there was another harmonization, I guess regulatory change proposed back in January that the province basically, Wanted the ability to harmonize, um, harvest regulations between 7B, 7A and 6 because there's such similar ho hunting opportunities across those three regions that if they make significant changes to one of the regions, it could, um, adversely impact pressure in another region.
[00:06:04] Essentially , if you close caribou in one place, all the dudes who were going for caribou in that place are now gonna go to the other place. And if you keep it general open season, you're gonna wind up with a whole bunch of P folks in one place where they didn't used to be. So, and the reason I want to bring that up is that it's, it is quite possible that the impact of the regulation change that may or may not go through could be more far-reaching than just 7B.
[00:06:30] So, and I think people need to be aware of that. The other thing before I pass this off, that I think is important to note, Is that some people are under the misguided notion that these regulatory changes happen by some kind of referendum or vote. Like I've, what I've heard from a lot of people, especially people across the border, is like, oh yeah, you guys lost that grizzly thing due to a vote.
[00:06:53] And unfortunately in the, in the province, they can open things for comment periods, but they are not held to our comments. You could have 99% of the province register a negative comment and they can go ahead and change whatever they want anyways. So it almost makes it that much more important to communicate the public sentiment.
[00:07:15] But in the same breath, I'd love to start having an even deeper conversation about how we could potentially address that issue, because it would be nice to have some more public input over these, these types of changes. Now I think everybody's gonna have their own, their own opinion, and everybody's gonna have their own voice and context that they, that they want to add. So I think the smartest thing to do is just, uh, go around the room. I think I'm just gonna use the layout that's sitting in front of me cuz it's easiest. And maybe if we could all, you know, just take two or three minutes just to open up the, the conversation and kind of maybe give some of your unique insights into what you think this means for the province and why this is or isn't a bad thing.
[00:08:04] Because I think everybody's free to have their own opinion and Greg is to my immediate right. So I'm gonna just toss it over to him and then Nolan, you'll be up on deck after that.
[00:08:17] Greg Rensmeg: Yeah. Just, uh, touch on what you said Jay. Um, yeah, it's a, it's a scary precedence. The north. Um, if you remove caribou hunting, all the caribou hunters are gonna move over to Region 6. If you limit the moose hunting, they're gonna go to where it's open. And I think that's, that's the biggest worry to me.
[00:08:42] And then when the everyone starts moving to those areas, that's where the regulations are gonna start changing again. I think it's just gonna be a snowball effect and just continue around the province. . It's a scary thought to me, but that's, that's all I really have to say on it.
[00:09:01] Jay Nichol: Yeah. Thanks Greg. Uh, Nolan, you're up.
[00:09:03] And Devon, you'll be on deck.
[00:09:06] Nolan Osborne: Yeah, I think, you know, for me, I think it's, it's more of a far-reaching concern than just, uh, our hunter, um, opportunity. And, and I don't know, maybe this isn't the most popular, uh, view on it, but I think what's more concerning than that is, is sort of how that, what our government is doing is they're showing us that there's a lack of commitment to wildlife management and there's a lack of commitment to conservation and there's a lack of commitment to the indigenous communities and.
[00:09:38] I think what we personally, what we need to be focusing on is, is not necessarily the message that we're losing Hunter opportunity, because I don't think that that really resonates throughout the rest of the province or even the rest of Canada. Um, you know, for a lot of people that's, that's seen as a very singular, uh, issue.
[00:09:57] And then there's a lot of people, particularly in the city, that they just, they're not gonna grasp it. There's, they're not gonna get engage in it. There's enough stuff going on in their lives that, um, it's not a strong enough message. And, and I think. You know, beyond, yeah. Beyond just losing, you know, opportunity on moose and then having that span into pressure elsewhere and, and, and on caribou.
[00:10:18] I, I think it's very troubling for us to watch this happen within the province because what it's showing us is that, you know, we can fight amongst ourselves, you know, whether that's against the outfitters or, or whatever, saying to the government, we need more opportunity. But at the end of the day, if we don't stand up for the actual environment itself and push back against industry and, and that kind of resource extraction, that's unsustainable.
[00:10:43] I don't think we're gonna have any wildlife left to be, you know, basically fighting over.
[00:10:50] Jay Nichol: Yeah. Thanks Nolan. Well, well put, uh, toss it over to you, Devon, and Kevin, you're on deck.
[00:10:56] Devon Gassoff: Yeah. I mean, to kind of build on what Nolan's talking about and. . It kind of goes without saying with most of us, and I think most people that are as passionate, uh, we fight about everything.
[00:11:08] Like we fight for all of this, right? Like, uh, all of us sitting here, there's not one of you and there's not, there's a whole handful. Other guys like Tanner from Frontiersman is a great advocate for this. Like we have all these things and we always care. But we have guys that are like, well, I've never even been to region 7.
[00:11:25] And I think that's like the number one thing that I try to drive home cuz I'm down here in region four. I grew up in region five and. You gotta remember that if they don't care about that, they're gonna easily move into the next one. We've talked about the region four, LEH, the sheep. That one too is the same incidents.
[00:11:44] What else is next? Like, what, what's gonna be the next closure that we just don't see that they're already making these deals, they already see an opportunity to do this again. And I think that's the big one that I've been trying to wrap my head around and also just pass off as much to people who are asking and then friends and, and what my thoughts are on it.
[00:12:02] Um, I mean, that's kind of my broad thought on the whole, the whole process and, and holding the government accountable is number one, um, whether or not this decision has any science that can back it, which we're not seeing, that's, uh, just holding them really accountable for these decisions and why they're making 'em.
[00:12:20] I mean, that's my first thoughts on it.
[00:12:23] Jay Nichol: Yeah. Thanks Devon. Uh, Kevin, I'll throw it to you and Kyle, you're up next.
[00:12:27] Kevin Toye: Yeah, you know, um, you know, the, there this issue is, is definitely multifaceted and I think Nolan, uh, he hit the nail on the head there and, and so did Greg and Devon. I mean, um, you know, the, what you touched on there, Jay, you know, the issue of, you know, region 7, 7A 7B, Region 6, you know, all following the same path.
[00:12:51] You know, that's just, uh, you know, I grew up in Region 6. I hunted Region 6. That's where I started hunting and, and you know, to think that, uh, you know, moose might be in jeopardy in Region 6 is, is something that, you know, I, I don't think the guy sitting in Region 6, you know, to, uh, to follow up what, uh, devs said there.
[00:13:12] I don't think the guys in Region 6 realize that, you know, realize the severity of what's really going on. . So, yeah, I, I think, uh, you know, it, it, it's, it's deep, it's multifaceted and, um, you know, it's, it's, you know, you could sit here and, and, and say, oh, it's, it's, um, it's getting taken away from hunters.
[00:13:38] It's giving give, you know, when other people can have the same, same rights, but I mean, it's by design, by the government. I mean, the government's the one that's not putting the resources into wildlife management. They're not doing, they're not doing their homework. Um, yeah. And I think, uh, I, I think if we're not careful here, it's really gonna affect us all.
[00:13:58] Jay Nichol: Yeah. Thanks Kevin. All right, Kyle and Dylan, your on deck.
[00:14:01] Kyle Stelter: Thanks, Jay. You know, the thing that really gets me fired up about this is when is the government gonna make wildlife a priority? And I just feel that time and time again, we're seeing, uh, wildlife as a bargaining chip for a number of, um, issues. That, and, and this is a classic example and we'll dive into that a little later, I think on, on why this is happening.
[00:14:24] I don't think this has anything to do. Um, hunting seasons or regulations or it's about is wildlife a priority? And we have to ask ourselves, is seeing wildlife on the landscape a priority? And if it is, we actually have to treat it like it is instead of a, a bargaining and chip and that it's gonna be used for resource extraction or, um, and you know, we're the Wild sheep Society BC so we advocate for wild sheep, obviously, but we care about all wildlife.
[00:14:48] And this is a moose issue. This is a caribou issue. But last week it was a big horn issue in region four and where's it gonna be next week? So, you know, that's my big concern is, is when does wildlife matter and when are we gonna start focusing on the root cause of diminishing wildlife populations? I start focusing on that instead of just saying, eh, you can't hunt there.
[00:15:06] You can't do this or can't do that. So that's my, uh, my.
[00:15:11] Jay Nichol: Thanks, Kyle. Okay. Dylan, you're up. And Aaron, you're on deck.
[00:15:15] Dylan Eyers: Right on. Thanks for, thanks for that. And, and Nolan, yeah, I liked, I liked where you went there and I think that's kind of the key message is this, this is about, you know, landscape management and priorities.
[00:15:25] Um, We, I did a podcast with Spencer Greening, um, who's, uh, from the Simpson Territory and, and has been in line management with this nation and with Jesse, uh, Jesse Zeman from the BC Wildlife Federation, um, last night or went out today. And, but that conversation was super interesting cuz, well, Jesse's pretty, pretty, pretty well spoken on this stuff and is at the center of the issue as well as, and then, and Spencer is an academic in this world and, and thinks about this stuff and speaks to these challenging topics and, and provides perspectives that, that's a good place to start if you want to go do a little deeper dive.
[00:16:00] But that a piece that, you know, in, we're re researching the podcast that, you know, so this is a court case where the blueberry First Nation took the government to, to, um, to to court for infringement of on their treaty rates and. In their treaty, they're li they are able to continue to have their way of life, which involves hunting, trapping, fishing, clean air, clean water, that, that, that's, that's, that's captured in their treaty rights under treaty eight.
[00:16:30] And the cumulative effects of oil and gas exploit exploitation have removed that ability for the blueberry First Nation people to practice their way of life. And, and that's, there's said, there was one stat that you, you can't walk 250 meters in the blueberry traditional territory without bumping into a cut line.
[00:16:49] So that, like, that the impacts are significant. And now what's, what that means to me is that like as a, as a hunter and someone who, whose way of life is, relies on wildlife and healthy ecosystems, that like our way of life is, that is threatened by the resource extraction and the cumulative effects of resource extraction.
[00:17:08] In this case, the Blueberry First Nation were able to take the government to court. For the infringement on their way of life and the loss of way of life. The, the challenge for us, and the frustration for all of us, and this was what Jesse spoke to in the podcast, is it said that as resident hunters, we don't have the ability to take government to court for infringement on, on our, our values of fish and wildlife values being taken away.
[00:17:32] And, and that's something that, you know, Kyle's frustration and the work he does, all of us are frustrated by how we just cannot make wildlife a priority. And how do we tell the government that this is a priority? And, and going back to where Nolan is talking about this, like we need to be able to tell a story to, it's not about moose allocation or reg changes.
[00:17:50] This is about the priority. Not that the government not taking care of, of ecosystems and the wildlife and ultimately all the people that depend on their way of life for, for, for those ecosystems of wildlife. So I'm hoping that we can tell a, a, a much more, or challenge the government to see things or, and tell stories that.
[00:18:10] People understand what this is about. It's not just about a, uh, a regulation change. It's about where our priorities are as a society. I'll pass it to the next person. Thanks.
[00:18:19] Jay Nichol: Thanks, Dylan. Uh, Aaron, you're up. And Curtis, you're deck.
[00:18:22] Aaron Mathais: Thank you very much. Um, you guys have pretty much knocked it outta the park, hitting all the major points here.
[00:18:29] I just got outta this went, went through the same process with the, with the caribou, with the ccr, concerned Citizens for Caribou recovery, and went down the same sort of path hoping that, uh, we'd be able to have a. The people would have a, a say in, in these decisions being made as opposed to just the governments and the first nations.
[00:18:48] I thought everyone else needed to be represented as well as we all are here for the same reason. We we're all here for conservation. That's number one thing. None of us wanna see a species wiped out, and we all wanna see animals here for our children to hunt down the road as well. So, um, first and foremost, I, I wanna see the, the moose numbers up where they need to be as well.
[00:19:07] But we need to, we need to focus, like, like you all have pointed out on the science, we need science-based research to make these decisions, not just a gut, a knee jerk reaction overnight. Boom, we're just gonna shut down all moose hunting. Well, let's do some count. Let's figure out some other methods that we could come up with of proper.
[00:19:24] As opposed to what the NDP have done Now, time and time again, I mean the, the consultation process is another thing that I find quite frustrating. And I, I don't mean to be the, the negative guy here just because I just came through the process on one species now jumping into another species. But I mean, right.
[00:19:43] Within two to three weeks we had over 55,000 signatures petitioning, uh, the government on what they were trying to do. And we just had three basic demands that we wanted to seat at the table as, as people. Um, and, and we just, Wanted science-based data and information to be shared in an open forum and 55,000 signatures in two weeks.
[00:20:06] And it meant nothing to the government, basically, like we, we were trying to kick the hornets nest and, and to no avail. It's, uh, attended poorly. I, I'd say, but again, we, we all want conservation. We all wanna see the species continue to move on, and, um, and we need it. It's gotta be science based. You guys have all kinda hit all these, all these talking points, so shut up from this point on and just, I'll be that negative, just, yeah, I agree.
[00:20:36] I agree. No, it's, it's good.
[00:20:39] Jay Nichol: Thanks Aaron. All right. Curtis, you're up. And, uh, Travis, you'll be on deck.
[00:20:43] Curtis Gassoff: Yeah, there's not much more I can say than what all the other guys have said already. Um, kind of running out of things to talk about , but, you know, the, the science-based thing is, for me, that means everything.
[00:20:55] Like, if you're using the wildlife and regulations to buy votes or to buy more rights for exploration or whatever, it's, I don't, we're taxpayers, you know, we're, we all live in the province, we're voters. We should all have a say and to do kind of a backdoor deal type deal. Like, what happened? I think, yeah, I don't know.
[00:21:18] It's what can you do if it's falling on deaf ears? Right. Um, you could send the truckers to Victoria, but I don't know if that's gonna make any difference. But, you know, it's, yeah, it's, it's frustrating being a, a resident hunter and, you know, the grizzly bear thing, I talk about that still, and I heard before it was happening and when it happened, so many people were just in awe, like, I can't believe they did that.
[00:21:42] Well, it starts there where it doesn't ever end. Once they take one thing, it's gonna go to the next thing and then it's gonna go to the next animal. And. You know, I would like to see more information behind it. Like if you're gonna close it down and go to LEH, well what are the numbers behind that? Like, if they're gonna give out 10,000 draws or something like that, well then your odds are pretty good.
[00:22:02] If you wanna hunt that area, maybe you'll get a draw. But where's the information behind all this? I haven't seen it. Um, yeah, I don't know really much more to say cuz you guys have all kinda hit it outta the part.
[00:22:14] Jay Nichol: Thanks Curtis. Travis, you're up. And, uh, Ty you'll, you'll close it out before we open up the floor.
[00:22:19] Travis Bader: Okay. I'm gonna follow Dell's lead there. Really, I mean, we're a very small sampling here of hunters in British Columbia and we're all echoing the exact same things. Like Devon says, you know, hold the government accountable for what's happening here. It's a very important thing and I think that's where most of the hunters within the province are leaning towards.
[00:22:40] I mean, when Dylan's talking about the treaty rights, Essentially the, um, the lawsuit that came through says, you know, the treaty rights to practice or lifestyle will not be forcibly infringed upon, and it wasn't one or two different resource extraction, uh, events that are causing the, uh, infringement upon the indigenous rights, but it's a cumulative effect of all of these.
[00:23:08] And they recognize this in the courts yet, from my understanding, nowhere in there do they talk about the resident hunting. Yet that was what the province went to in order to, uh, Essentially take that next step, take that move to say, look at what we're doing, look at how we're showing that we're, we're going to give something here.
[00:23:29] And it's just a very bad precedent because there's going to be, there will be more lawsuits like this one and there will very likely be similar results as we go through. And if we don't look at the science when we're making our decisions now and we make poor decisions as we move forward, it's just that much easier to make the same poor decisions as we keep moving.
[00:23:52] So there, there is a need to take a very scientific look and a very reasoned look at why our decisions that we're making now, which are gonna impact everybody and the impact of wildlife, which impacts everybody are being made. That's essentially echoing what everyone else here has said.
[00:24:11] Jay Nichol: Yeah, thanks, Travis.
[00:24:12] Over to you Ty.
[00:24:14] Tyler Freel: The there's two, there's two major things that I've realized in the past. I don't know, five or 6 days. What, what are we at here? I think we're 6 days into this. Um, the first thing is that hunters and BC resident hunters as a group, there's 110,000 of us and we cannot show up. We just don't show up like we've banged on every door shake and every tree.
[00:24:41] And I, I, I mean, I, I would be shocked if there's more than 2000 signatures or, or, or, um, uh, opposes on, on this thing right now. Um, Which is just shocking to me because it's like we have this social obligation as hunters to be conservationists and like, I mean, you guys know from chatting with me privately and stuff that I started hunting as an adult.
[00:25:06] And when you start hunting as an adult, you go through this whole thing of everybody around you wants to know why you're hunting, why are you doing this thing? You're gonna go out and shoot an animal. It's this. It's this whole, this whole snowballing thing. And because of it, you get all these built-in answers, right?
[00:25:20] You're like, You have to explain conservation to every single person you've known your entire life that doesn't understand why you do this thing. So like, when this stuff comes up, you go, you look at it, right? You look at the, these proposed regulations and you go, there's, there's no science here. There's, there's nothing to back this stuff up, right?
[00:25:38] And as, uh, a a, a guy that started hunting later in life, uh, and having to learn all this stuff secondhand, you just kind of look at it. You, you look at it so dumbfound and you're like, how come everybody's not running around with their hair on fire? Like this is, it's just insane to me that people aren't screaming from the rooftops outside of our, um, small, small niches, you know, of, of, you know, wild sheep society and, uh, Uh, PC Wildlife Foundation and, you know, s c I entered the chat today, right?
[00:26:12] Like, like it, it's, it's, it, it, it, it blows my mind. So that, that's one of my, my big takeaways from this thing is that, um, the call to action is here and we need people to, to get fired up about it and get to work and, and, and, and, and, you know, it's not that much work. It takes two minutes to sign this thing, but also be active and talk to people about it.
[00:26:34] And then the other component of it is, is the, the science side, like Travis just pointed out, right? Like, we need to hold the government accountable for not following anything that, that they should be in terms of, uh, managing our wildlife. Um, I mean, everybody covered so many great points going through this, but I, I could go, go on a rant about how frustrating this whole thing is watching it as, uh, you know, an average dude inside of hunting, uh, seeing, seeing nobody, nobody jump in, right.
[00:27:08] Greg Rensmeg: you know, uh, Ty. Uh, and I think, you know, I heard a, a lot of guys say we need to hold the government accountable, and you kind of mentioned there's 110 thou, or, you know, 110,000 hundreds in BC and, uh, you know why they're not screaming from the rooftops. I think it's that lack of, of response and communication you get from our government back to us.
[00:27:28] Mm-hmm. that deters a lot of people. Do you know what I mean? Like, how do we hold the government accountable? Like how do we, I don't know. Do you know what I mean? Like, what's the step? A lot of guys, a lot of people don't know the steps to take to do that.
[00:27:39] Mm-hmm. , Dylan, you wanted to jump in here? Oh yeah, Dylan.
[00:27:43] Dylan Eyers: Yeah. Well, and I know exactly, and, and you know, I, I do work for government and I spend a great deal part of my day writing in response to letters that come in around people's park management issues. And it's, and it's kind of incredible, like from. There is a way of communicating with government, and that's to write letters to the minister to say, Hey, this is important to me.
[00:28:04] This is why. And we have a responsibility as public servants and the minister to respond to those letters. We also have, uh, you could, all of us can book time with our MLA's and, and, and help tell the story of why wildlife's important mm-hmm. , uh, to, to us in our way of life and, and how it contributes to, you know, well our way of life, but the economy and conservation and, and all of these important stories.
[00:28:27] But that's what's hard to do and that's the part that it's shocking is that like we don't take the opportunity 110,000 hunters. That's a strong voice that has a significant influence over, over, you know, the elections. And it's enough to really. To drive an agenda at a political level. If, if, if we're, if we're taking those grassroots steps to, to write letters to influence our politicians and meet with them, it's, it's, it's remarkable how much influence that has politically and most of us are just, are either, don't know the steps as, as, as, uh, focused podcast suggested there.
[00:29:01] And, um, and I think that's true and it's also intimidating, but it's something that Jesse Zeman speaks really well to. He's like, these are just normal people, these politicians, and they're, they're just trying to help most of them. And they just don't know what, like they're just, and they will. Follow the best story that, you know, makes sense to them and we can help them tell, tell a good story and influence them.
[00:29:23] And I think that's quite possible. And they're not, they're just normal people trying to do a good job and it's, it's a hard job. So, I don't know, I think it just encourage you at all to, to do that. That's the main message I wanted to share with this group. And if it gets a little farther, like go talk your MLA's and uh, write letters and it's a lot more influential than clicking on a button cuz the, the button is a stat and we, we all know that we're all gonna click on the button and, and it's gonna say, you know, maybe 20,000 people or whatever.
[00:29:49] But the, uh, forcing them to write a letter back to you, that's gonna influence them a lot more.
[00:29:55] Devon Gassoff: So I wanna touch on what you said there, Dylan. Uh, messaging the MLA's. I know when the act now went out, I sent letters to probably 30 MLA's, not even my own, just all across the province. And I got two responses back.
[00:30:09] One was local here and one was, um, that was it? Mike Morris, I think he's up Terrace Way or something like that. But like I was sending 'em out to every single one of 'em and you know, it's either in the junk mail or they just deleted it. I don't know, but.
[00:30:24] Jay Nichol: Yeah. And you see it, then you got...
[00:30:27] go ahead, Dyl.
[00:30:28] Dylan Eyers: No, I mean, that's a, there's a responsibility for government to write back to you and if they don't write back to you, write again. And then they, then they, then they, they're irresponsible. They have to, that's part of the Democrat process. Right? So , uh, I encourage you to, I mean, and, and even two responses that was influence, right?
[00:30:43] And those folks are, are doing their. Uh, yeah, try anyways, but
[00:30:49] Curtis Gassoff: I have more of like a, it's kind of a question and maybe a thought. And Dylan you might have insight here. I mean, Kyle or Greg might be a, a good lead in here too, and we can do it. So say, say we get a hundred thousand hunters on board, and it does it, and it, and it sways.
[00:31:05] Somebody at what point, you know, BC is proud, like besides just our hunting and our, that kind of wildlife, BC has it on our license plate. You know, Beto for British Columbia, art, tourism, all this shit, everything that we stand for in bc. We're proud of our wildlife and our wild lands and our wild places.
[00:31:24] And you know what, I think it's Katrina Conroy right now. She's our wildlife minister. Whatever she is. At what point do we need another position that actually, and maybe this is like that, that stewardship or that committee, but when there's like an actual member that this is what they do, this is a full-time job, the funding's finally there and someone takes care of this as a full-time job and not a secondhand job.
[00:31:47] Is there any insight to that or is there any answers to those types of questions?
[00:31:52] Aaron Mathais: Would would that be more like a lobbyist?
[00:31:59] I think so , I mean, this is, this is more of a opposing question than anything I had an answer to. It's something I think about is like when you, we can get everyone on board, but is it not gonna make a difference unless someone's on board at the government level, like fully supportive of us, like we get to vote them in or, or the government votes in, there's another minister, like another position to be filled.
[00:32:23] Is that not the case?
[00:32:26] Jay Nichol: Let's throw it to, uh, Kyle.
[00:32:30] Kyle Stelter: Yeah. Thanks, Ty. Actually, ironically, uh, Deb, they just changed ministries, literally. Uh, in fact, they're in theory not active until I think April 1st. But if you actually look, they've changed titles. So Katrine Conroy is the ministry of Flynn Row right now. Uh, but effective April 1st, she changes to exclusively forestry.
[00:32:49] Um, so there's a new ministry that's dedicated to forestry. Um, and there was a big restructure. It was pretty significant. It was quite a long, uh, process and, uh, the, the new process is even more confusing. And I've talked to a lot of people in government. I sit on the provincial hunting and trapping advisory team through the Wild Sheep decided BC and, uh, the new structure is not, it didn't gimme a lot of confidence going forward.
[00:33:13] I'll say that. Um, the new ministry and the, and the way it's structured, um, Complicated. And, uh, maybe it's gonna work out fine. I, I can't say right now, but, uh, the interesting thing is when you've seen the, uh, sort of the, the flow chart of things, I had a hard time of actually finding the world word wildlife in there.
[00:33:32] I could find forestry, I could find natural resources, I could find, um, you know, reconciliation, all important stuff. But the word wildlife was buried so deep in it. And, and that again, gave me more cause for concern. So yeah, it would be nice if there was a ministry of wildlife, you know, that would be really, really encouraging.
[00:33:49] Uh, there just isn't right now. And, and they just restructured. So it's not coming anytime soon. So, yeah, good point. And I think that, you know, again, this comes to my point earlier and, and was brought up earlier is wildlife has to be a priority in this province. And I just don't see that that is, uh, uh, the case certainly for this, this current government really.
[00:34:11] Jay Nichol: Thanks for that, Kyle. I, you know, I don't want to, I want to, I don't wanna take this thing off the rails, but the one thing that's really become clear to me, you know, specifically over the last two years and then really over the last 6 months, is there's a lot of, there's a lot of areas as a Canadian where I thought we had a certain amount of power and a certain amount of input about how things were done and carried out in our country.
[00:34:34] And it turns out we don't, I don't have nearly as much power over my own country as I, as I thought I did. And there's a lot of different areas where individuals can just make decisions and life changes and there's nothing you can do about it. And we kind of have this illusion of democracy in, in a lot of ways.
[00:34:55] And I do think there's, you know, There's a strong need for there to be a common voice. And it was funny, I think it was, was Kevin asked the question, is that a lobbyist, and I don't want to use the States as an example all the time, like I do do a lot of hunting down there and I don't want to like beat a dead horse, but the reason they have so much power down there is that they've got money and people have decided to use their money to make their voices be heard and get political control over the things that matter to them.
[00:35:27] And one of the things I'm seeing out of. And there are great organizations in British Columbia, but they're all focused, you know, wi Wild Chief Society is sitting in here. We got Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance. We have some other really great, the backcountry hunters. There's a lot of really great, but they all have their own individual mandates.
[00:35:47] Maybe, maybe it's time for like a general hunting rights, you know, lobbyist group or not-for-profit. That could be a more common voice and have a more direct line. Because I do think this is the first of many potential issues that are going to, you know, take place that don't have, that we don't have as much input on as we'd like.
[00:36:09] I think Kyle had his hand raised.
[00:36:15] Kyle Stelter: Sorry that was leftover from before.
[00:36:17] Jay Nichol: Oh, no worries. Anyways, that's just my 2 cents. I, I, I, I used to be kind of happy, just sitting in my corner doing my thing and I could just, you know, live my happy little life. And then over the last little while I realized, you know, I'm in my forties now and it's probably time, you know, I need to get off my ass and do more about the things that actually happen in my community because sitting around and waiting for everybody else to, to make things be the way I think they should be, or the way that people who are like me think they should be, it just doesn't seem to be happening.
[00:36:48] Curtis Gassoff: So did I think that, sorry, go ahead.
[00:36:51] Tyler Freel: No, no. You, you, you, you go ahead. Go ahead Curtis.
[00:36:53] Curtis Gassoff: Oh, I was just gonna say that, uh, like what, uh, Jay was saying there, I think you need that, uh, spearhead, right? Everyone kind of unify underneath, underneath one banner. I don't know how that all sorts out between all the different, um, wild Chief Society and Rocky Mountain Goat and all the other societies there is out there.
[00:37:13] I know there's lots, but I do think that is something that we need in BC and I think you need a front man. You need a, a face of the organization that kind of blankets over top of all the other organizations and you're, you're gonna have to draw funds because you're gonna have to pay somebody to be in there like a lobbyist, um, to get in there and advocate for us.
[00:37:39] Nolan Osborne: You know, I think we do kind of have that in BC, uh, through the B C W F, or at least that's the intent, um, of them. But I sometimes feel like because they're so broad, um, that it's maybe harder for them to. to make changes in the same way. Like, uh, you know, not to just plug the Sheep society, cuz Kyle's here, but I think one of the, one of the strongest things about the sheep society and why it's been able to do so many things within the province and put so much money back on the ground is because of that singular focus.
[00:38:10] Right. And if you're trying to, you know, if you're trying to sort of capture everybody under, under one group, you know, there, there is a lot of difference in, in how we feel about certain things. You know, certain, and maybe there's people in this, even in this room, that feel strongly about keeping access open, uh, you know, into the back country so that they can drive in if they're less able or something.
[00:38:31] Whereas for myself, like I'd love to see just about everything gated off so that, you know, to, and to see the, see the roads come back and the, the environment come back. So I think that's one of the issues that we, that we do constantly deal with in this province. Um, and you know, one thing that I wonder too is.
[00:38:48] when we're talking about having accountability for the government, is maybe, maybe trying to create some kind of a unified, uh, understanding of what that even is. You know, because if we don't, if we can say all we want, Hey, the, you know, the government needs to be accountable, but can any, can any one of us say, well, we actually know what accountability is, or can that 110,000 of us say as a group, this is what accountability is, and this is when we will know we've reached that.
[00:39:15] Because if we don't have that, you know, I think we're just always in this battle, right? This cycle of, and I'm fairly new to the province. I've been here for less than a decade, but it seems like it's just this, it's this constant cycle, right? And we're always, we're always just coming off a punch to the nose and then, and then trying to swing as opposed to looking at it and trying to be, you know, trying to be really proactive and say like, okay, what are we not doing right now?
[00:39:40] It can change things because for me, and, and this is really something that, that I came out of this podcast that Dylan did and, uh, yesterday I listened to it late last night. And one of the things that Spencer touched on there at the end of it was that, uh, you know, he was talking about indigenous communities and how they manage wildlife and stuff like that.
[00:39:58] And, and what he was saying was that, you know, the indigenous communities in BC are quite often the ones who are fighting, fighting this fight in the forefront. We come out in the backend and say, you know, you, this isn't unacceptable. You can't do this, you can't take away this. Um, but very rarely, I think, is our community actually saying, you know what?
[00:40:18] It's unacceptable to log that old growth. It's unacceptable to put in. You know, to put in that pit miner, it's unacceptable to continue this resource extraction in the way it's been do, done. And it's obviously a complex thing in this province because so many of the people in our province, probably particularly the hunting communities, rural communities, rely on that for, you know, as, as their way of life.
[00:40:40] And, and I think, I think we just need to find a way to, to sort of fight that, but push back and, and make it so that it's something that's sustainable and not just say like, look, it can't happen at all. We know that that's never gonna happen. We know we're never gonna have no resource extraction, but to be able to be able to get in front of it and be able to fight that kind of stuff as opposed to wait until it's affected us and then be coming and saying, well, you can't take this away.
[00:41:05] Greg Rensmeg: I, I think that's a good point. Uh, Nolan, you know, um, it, it's, it's one thing to say, yeah, I. I, I, I value my right to hunt and to fish and, uh, I don't want it, you know, I don't want my opportunities to be taken away, but at the same time, if it's gonna, if, if, if there's a chance, I'm not gonna be able to put food on my table for my kids, my family, you know, it's, uh, it's a little different for sure.
[00:41:33] Does it kind of go to, like, if, if you were looking at it like, if you simplified what we needed, um, could you just say we need someone to hold the government accountable to always have science-based decisions like that? When you say it's too broad of a, you know, like cur kind of mentioned like, well I don't know what that looks like because, and you know, there was good points that the Wild Sheep Society of BC gets a lot of stuff done because of their narrow focus and, and they get it done well.
[00:42:01] Really the biggest thing we need to start with is one body. It doesn't even have to be a group, it needs to be a person, or maybe it could be a group, but all they do is hold them accountable for every decision that is being made when it comes to our wildlife is science-based. And that's like your first simple approach to it.
[00:42:17] And then from there, if it gets to something well, and that's what it is. And obviously that's easy to say and a lot harder to do, but I mean, uh, you always gotta start at the simplest thing. Isn't that kind? I think to have that, oh, go ahead Ty.
[00:42:30] Tyler Freel: I was just gonna say, isn't that the responsibility of us as hunters as a whole though, right.
[00:42:35] To call out bullshit when we see it.
[00:42:38] Greg Rensmeg: I was gonna, I was gonna add in there. I, I think, uh, you know, it would be most effective to have that, to have somebody in that, with that power. Have a seat in government now. Yeah. You know, I, uh, it was a while ago when this happened, but I remember the liberals, they amalgamated, I think it was, Kyle might, might know this better than me, but they amalgamated, they amalgamated, um, wildlife and land resources together to be one big super resource.
[00:43:07] Or, or they said at the time it was gonna have more power cuz they'd, you know, they, they would be concerned about one thing over the other. They can kind of worry about both of 'em. But obviously that didn't work. So
[00:43:20] Tyler Freel: let's throw it back to, uh, Kyle here. .
[00:43:25] Kyle Stelter: Thanks, Ty. Yeah. The the thing is that concerns me is we all on, I think on this call, we're all gonna sit here and, and expose science-based wildlife management. It's one of the 7 tenants in the North American wildlife model. But I can tell you for certainty that there's a lot of people that don't think that way.
[00:43:42] And there's people that are advocating for the government with voices, a lot of voices that are saying that they don't support that. And there's people that are saying that that model has to change is that it's broken. So, um, I agree it's really important, but, uh, it's not even that they're. Not following the principles that they're supposed to.
[00:43:59] They don't even believe in those principles, some of those people. And, um, so they're, and they're a getting advocated every single day. And the, the wolf call in northern BC is one classic example of that where, um, there's groups out there that are saying wildlife management should not be based on science, it should be based on emotion or opinion.
[00:44:17] And, and there's a lot of that. So it's something that, you know, we have to turn our mind to too, that. We're, we are a small minority of hunters. Again, that's why all 110 thousands of us kind of get our, get our shit together because there's a lot of people out there that don't believe the same things we do, even just when it comes around to science-based wildlife management.
[00:44:34] So it has to start there.
[00:44:37] Devon Gassoff: I saw one today that kind of a little bit off topic here, but, uh, I saw one today that would inform the non-hunting public. I just put it in my story on Instagram. It is hilarious. Somebody sent it to me cuz they, they knew, they know I'm into elk. This person's a non hunter. It was like a CBC article about how the Roosevelt Elkhart has been spotted for the first time in a hundred years since being extricated by hunters in the area.
[00:45:00] It's like it's a transplant herd. There's a, there's a legal season on it right now. It's like, I I if it, it's like it's our responsibility to educate the public because there's so much, uh, Anti-hunting going on all the time in the most, uh, I don't know, innocuous ways, right? Like a, a news article. It didn't seem like an anti-hunting news article to the person that sent me it.
[00:45:24] But then you look at it and you're like, this is complete bs. Right? That's what we're working against a lot. Right.
[00:45:31] Curtis Gassoff: When, uh, you guys say, and this might come from Ty, you , I got a good new hunting partner, and he's a, what they, you guys have been referring to as adult onset hunter.
[00:45:42] Tyler Freel: Oh, don't say that.
[00:45:42] Curtis Gassoff: And starting starting later in life.
[00:45:46] Um, you guys got yourself educated quicker than any of us, and I'm sure Kevin and a bunch of these guys or anyone that, I don't know how late you guys or when you started hunting, but Kurt and I started when we were 10 or even earlier shooting gross. And you guys got yourself educated quicker. And I would actually say better than most of us traditional, you know, grow up hunting in DC type guys.
[00:46:09] And what, and what I mean by that is you just said, . It's our job to educate the general public on why hunting's valuable and what we do as hunters and conservationists. That has never been taught to us, and it probably should be, is what I'm kind of saying is like there is a ton of hunters in this province that have no idea what that means.
[00:46:30] Like what do you mean? I have like I've, our parents, my, we never talked to and we, we didn't even consider non-hunters. I mean, we grew up in a community that basically everyone hunted, or at least everyone we talked to and grew up with, hunted so, mm-hmm that alone. Just being like a topic of we need to educate.
[00:46:48] The non is such a new thing. I know one campfire's working their hardest to do it. I know there's a ton of people out there and we do our best, but. To be honest, like, I'm probably not doing the best job because, you know, most people that follow us or or listen to us are probably the, the hunters. So that's an interesting point, an interesting way to look at it.
[00:47:07] I think that's, uh, I think, yeah, I, oh,
[00:47:10] Greg Rensmeg: I was just gonna say, I think you're right. Uh, uh, Dev cuz Jay, you and I, we kinda had this conversation today too about that and, uh, yeah. You know, being a, a person myself who grew up, you know, from the time I could walk, I was fishing and, and hunting, um, you know, yeah. I mean the, the adult onset hunters are doing a way better job.
[00:47:31] But then I think, uh, a lot of the guys who just grew up and, you know, it's just take it for granted.
[00:47:37] Devon Gassoff: Well, and I think there's some other issues, like I've tried to bring up the idea of like increased tag prices before. Cuz if you go hunting other places in the world, what we have here is insane. Like literally textbook insane.
[00:47:50] The fact is you go buy like a 20 and $40 tag is, and when you go to other places that have extremely robust wildlife management practices, tags are more expensive and there's more draw tags, and the draw systems are, are more sophisticated and the way they're able to afford the more sophisticated wildlife management practices is by charging more for tags and having it be more of run like a business.
[00:48:16] And when you as a, as a newer hunter, like I am the classic, you know what I mean? Came into it in my early thirties, little bit of childhood stuff in Ontario, but nothing crazy. And to me, like I'm a business consultant for a living, it's what I do. I help people be more efficient. I look around and I'm like, well, it's pretty clear here.
[00:48:35] We don't have. Coming in to support what we need going out was we need more coming in. And like you bring that up and you know, people kind of jump all over you. So I do think we are at a bit of a crossroads where it's like, there's kind of like we're, we're of two worlds in the hunting industry. Not, sorry, not the industry, but as BC hunters, we kind of have this newer generation that doesn't have the experience, doesn't have the history in the area, but maybe is a little more open to doing things differently and being a louder voice.
[00:49:09] And then we kind of have the backbone of bc the people who, when you run up the Muscow, they've got family camps and they're like the history and the tradition and like that's what hunting in BC has been. But there's also a bit of a sense of entitlement there where they think this is ours. It's always been ours, and it's always gonna stay like that.
[00:49:27] And I do worry that if we're not a little more, um, cooperative and engaged together as one big group, that's not always gonna be the case. I'll throw it over to Travis.
[00:49:40] Travis Bader: You know, a lot of really good points here. I mean, we've got, what, 110,000 hunters in the province of British Columbia, of a province that has over 5 million residents in here.
[00:49:52] Trying to get that 110 to operate in the same direction. We all know it's not gonna happen. I mean, everyone's got their different ideas, they have different, uh, perspectives on how things should be handled, which is when we spoke earlier about having maybe one organization, I'm not necessarily sure that's the best way to move forward.
[00:50:14] If we want to get these different ideas, um, have some light shed on them. However, if we have pressing. Concepts like the one that we're talking about right now, like we're talking about with the, uh, the blueberry First Nation and the government's idea to limit hunting rights in order to answer a question about, uh, industry, uh, infringement on their rights.
[00:50:38] Perhaps having that overriding right or concept, uh, discussed by all of the different organizations cuz each organization is gonna be responsible to his representatives or to its, uh, to its members. And most of them will want to move that. They'll want to move it forward in a, in a similar direction without having a die by committee from one large organization.
[00:51:02] And you know, we're talking about, it's our responsibility to educate the public, but we're talking to the choir here. The people listening to this are gonna be the choir. Like how do we do that? How do we get to the 5 million and not the hundred and 10,000? And I know we've got, um, like while Sheep Society has an initiative forward with the social media, I honestly think we have to start taking a look at, um, The wildlife from a different perspective, perhaps not that the environment and the wildlife is something that we have dominion over, which is I think how non hunters perhaps look at hunters, look at that hunter out there.
[00:51:39] They've got, they feel they have dominion over. But the fact that we are wildlife, we are all a part of this together. And if we can get that message out, if we don't properly manage our resources and we don't properly manage our wildlife, and we say science-based, um, I mean, what I think it was Israeli, they say, said, there's liars, damn liars and statisticians.
[00:52:01] Like, what's science-based when we look at it? So come to an overall consensus of what is good for the province, what is good for our wildlife, and that should stand the, uh, the candle test essentially. I mean, you hold that up to, uh, to a light, whether it's something that hunters agree with or don't. If it's good for the wildlife, good for the environment, in the long term, it'll most likely.
[00:52:26] Work with what the hunters want. Few different tangents. Try to try to cover a few topics or at once.
[00:52:32] Jay Nichol: Thanks Travis. Okay, we'll kick it over to Aaron and then we're gonna, we're gonna do a bit of a call of the action, so, so people know how they can participate in this and have a voice.
[00:52:42] Aaron Mathais: And someone living up in region 7.
[00:52:44] The one thing that, uh, we really noticed here that hasn't really been touched on, uh, in this discussion yet is this has reached far beyond just hunting up here that we've seen all, uh, natural resources, uh, all permitting has been shut down. So a good chunk of my clientele, my customer base are, I'm not gonna say unemployed, but they see the taps being turned off and all the resource sectors appear.
[00:53:08] And so there's, as much as this is affecting hunting, it's affecting ways of life, which also then affects our industries and everything like that as well. Cause there's, um, everything's being turned off. So it's not just affecting the, so you probably don't see it in the other regions so much, but we're, we're an oil and gas rich and, and logging rich and mining rich, uh, community up here in region 7.
[00:53:32] And all permits have been put on hold for two years. So any permits that weren't currently. Already issued, um, have been shut off. There will be no more permits for the next couple years, which will be devastating for the region. So it does go beyond just, um, the hunters are the only ones being affected in this, so that it's really, um, devastating our whole economy as well.
[00:53:56] Jay Nichol: Thanks, Aaron. Okay, so I, I just wanna re there was a great email that actually I ended up getting by way of another individual that came out from Barry James, who's the resource manager for Mackenzie District. And he does a good job of kind of like wrapping up the impact of this in five points. And before we share a call to action, I'm just gonna reiterate these five points so we kind of refresh the context of what we're talking about here.
[00:54:22] So, uh, justice Burke, who is the individual who made the call about this infringement, which is what started this whole snowball. Noted the following, BC has unjustifiably infringed upon the blueberry First Nation's treaty rights as a result of cumulative effects of authorizing industrial activities. And that is a court decision.
[00:54:45] So that's not up for debate. Two, BC may not continue to authorize activities that breach the promises in the treaty. Um, that's what Aaron was just talking about, about the permit freeze and BC chose not to appeal this court decision at this stage. Number three, at this stage, we have no ability to assess the impact that hunting authorizations may have on First Nations rights to hunt.
[00:55:12] And this goes to what, you know, Devon keeps driving home. There's actually, there is no data that supports this at this point. May be true, may not be true. We don't know. Number four. Hunting is one of the most important matters for all Treaty eight nations, and it's important to address impacts to those rights.
[00:55:30] And I don't think any of us would argue that point. It's how we address those rights that we want to participate in that conversation. And finally, as a result, uh, the interim measure that is proposed would be a two year plan to reduce moose hunting by 50% close caribou and start a path to co-management with Treaty eight First Nations.
[00:55:53] And then, then it gets really messy as to like what co-management could be and all that kind of stuff. And I don't want to get us any, any further into the weeds, but that's the general context of what we're, we kind of branched out into some larger topics. So let's bring it back into what's actually in front of us right now.
[00:56:11] And that's these proposed regulatory changes in in 7B. I'm gonna throw it over to Greg. Perhaps you could let everybody know how they c you know, what the Wild Sheep Societies Act Now campaign is and how people can participate in that.
[00:56:26] Greg Rensmeg: Absolutely. Uh, thanks guys. So if you go to our website, www.wildsheepsociety.com and then slash act, now we have a four step process there to assist in pushing, uh, step one.
[00:56:43] It's a link that'll take you to the government page where you can oppose stand neutral or before the 7B proposals, which most of you have should have seen by now. Our step two is a form letter that will go to your MLA's. You can print off there, you can edit it. Uh, we have drop down. Uh, tabs where you just have to enter your email, your m l a.
[00:57:11] It's very simple and it's dedicated to your m l a, so they have to respond. Uh, step three, we're asking everybody to actually meet with their m l a, build a relationship, get a rapport with them. That way they'll be more inclined to meet you in the future. And they do have to meet with you. They can't just keep pushing you off.
[00:57:31] If you keep pushing 'em, they have to meet with you. And then that's, that's all we got for the, the act now. So that,
[00:57:42] Jay Nichol: thanks Greg. I appreciate that. Ty, I'm gonna throw it over to you. Perhaps you could share what how has, has done for us and how people can take advantage of that.
[00:57:50] Tyler Freel: Yeah. So, um, um, Charles over at HOWL, um, uh, we chatted right when this first happened and I threw it over to, uh, Greg and Steve at Wild Sheep and I think, uh, Tanner from Frontiersman got involved there too and got those guys all the info.
[00:58:08] Um, what HOWL does is they basically automate, um, the, the MLA kind of emailing process and they basically have this set up now. So there's a form that they have here that you fill out. It's just your first name, last name, email. Um, there's a pre done letter in here. It's a great letter. And what it does is it actually emails all 86 voting MLA's in the province in one shot.
[00:58:33] Um, in the last 24 hours, 1,794 emails have gone out. So I mean, whatever that is, times 86. That's a lot of emails. Um, I think our MLA's are just hammered with emails after, after doing that. Um, So kind of, I think that the next action, I don't know if if you want to talk about it, Jay, is um, actually logging onto the government website and opposing the, um, proposed regulation.
[00:59:02] Jay Nichol: Yeah, I will, I will hit that up. So the URL is hyper convoluted, so I'm not even going to going give it. We'll put it in the show notes. Actually. I think all of us should. Right? A hundred percent. And that's, I was just gonna note that, but essentially it's the angling hunting and trapping engagement website.
[00:59:19] So also if you just Google that, you will get to it. And what I've been doing is, um, if you just literally Google 7B moose caribou, it's the first thing that comes up on Google. And essentially that is the website where they post potential regulatory changes and then you have the opportunity to interact directly.
[00:59:42] You can comment on it, you can support it. You can oppose it. You log into this with your B C E I D, which if you're a hunter, you've already got no problem. Um, Ty has been doing a phenomenal job on his stories and even on some of his posts, he's got a little four or five step process. So on Instagram Wilderness locals, you can go to his page and essentially you log on, scroll down to the bottom, click oppose, and then you have to enter a, a comment.
[01:00:11] And what we've been recommending to people is that we would prefer to see science-based approach to decision making within the province. And because we don't have data to support this decision, we oppose this decision as a currently or these proposed regulations as they, as they currently stand. And the last point I would like to make on this is that you do not have to.
[01:00:33] A resident or a hunter in order to do this. I've made my child a BC id, I've made my wife a BC id, I've made my brother a BC id and they have all, you know, whether they're aware of it or not, logged in and opposed this thing . So anybody that you're related to, the other thing is, I've got hunting buddies that aren't on social media.
[01:00:55] Yeah. Like they've just tapped outta this thing. And I've been texting anybody I can think of, and the one guy's like a very dedicated hunter, and he had no clue. How would you, they don't, they don't email you or send this out. Like it'll, it'll, you know, and uh, he was like, oh, you know, shit, I'll, I'll get right on it, man.
[01:01:11] Sorry about that. And I sent him the link and he logged in. So I really want to promote a grassroots approach here. Like, hit up friends, it takes five minutes. I've got people who follow me in like, Pennsylvania, and they're sending me messages like, you mean I can go do this right now? I'm like, yeah, man.
[01:01:27] Just go make it. Absolutely. And they take the five minutes and they do it because they want to participate and they, and they want to help out. So that's, you know, the, the really great thing I think that one campfire does, and I don't think it gets enough left. Love. Is that we are a minuscule percentage of the population as hunters, and although the recruitment drive is good, we will never recruit enough hunters in order to be a significant element of the population.
[01:01:56] But what we can do, Is, get the fence sitters, the people who are non-hunters, but still respect and appreciate our way of life to help us and to be our allies in this. And I think that is a much more likely path to becoming that like large segment of a population that has a voice that's loud enough to actually have an impact.
[01:02:20] So that would be my last call to action, is reach out to your friends and family. Ask them to take five or 10 minutes outta this day because we could literally double or triple our impact without having a single new hunter come to the table just by asking the people who care for us and support us to participate in this struggle with us.
[01:02:41] Tyler Freel: Kyle, I'm gonna put you in the hot seat. Okay?
[01:02:44] Kyle Stelter: You bet buddy.
[01:02:45] Tyler Freel: Outta all those call to actions. What's the most meaningful, what's the most powerful? It's a, it's a trick question.
[01:02:53] Kyle Stelter: Yeah. I'm not following you. What, what are you looking for?
[01:02:55] Tyler Freel: It's all of 'em. Do all of 'em.
[01:02:57] Kyle Stelter: Oh yeah, yeah. Okay. Sorry. Yeah, of course.
[01:02:59] For sure. But, but for sure.
[01:03:00] Tyler Freel: But in all seriousness, in your experience, what, what have you seen, uh, make, make the biggest impact?
[01:03:07] Kyle Stelter: Uh, you know, I, I think that the key here is, you know, we just gotta get our, our shit together as, as. You know, if, if we all care about wildlife, I don't think there's anyone out there and there's 110,000 hunters out there.
[01:03:19] We all care. And we just kind of get on the, get on the same page and we gotta start speaking the same language and we gotta do a better job of engaging everyone. And I think that that's the strength of this group here, right? We've got 10 different podcasts that have 10 different groups of people that they talk to.
[01:03:33] And, uh, and, and I applaud you for putting this together, Ty, because we've got 10 voices saying the same thing and we all kind of say the same thing, but we never do it at the same time. So, you know, hopefully we can get people on board. And I think the biggest threat to us is just the apathy. There's just not enough people speaking up and standing up for what they really believe in.
[01:03:53] And that's for healthy wildlife populations in bc.
[01:03:57] Tyler Freel: Yeah, absolutely. Um, closing thoughts, everybody. Should we go around the room or is everybody satisfied?
[01:04:03] Devon Gassoff: No, I, I, I have a closing thought. I actually have a, I wanna play the devil's advocate card. and just a little bit. And this is, this might be a really good response from someone like Aaron and probably Nolan.
[01:04:18] Um, I know Nolan, you guide it or you still guide? I'm not sure exactly, but, so a couple of comments that we've heard through friends, guides, residents of 7B, whatever, they're almost in support of it. Okay. Um, they're not in support of how the government's handling it, uh, but they're in support of potentially having some kind of LEH in to maybe better moose management up there.
[01:04:46] Um, so devil's advocates side of it is, is that actually something. That needs to be considered. Um, I know the guides have talked about it a little bit. There's, it's not just residents. So maybe, Aaron, have you heard of any of this or is this something that you think is legitimate?
[01:05:03] Aaron Mathais: My honest opinion is LEH isn't the only method to manage these sorts of things.
[01:05:08] I mean, we could go back to something, I, I don't remember how many years ago it was, but like with sheep hunting, where it was, if you successfully harvested a creature, boom, you're, you're shut down for the next three years or two years or whatever that could look like. And I. Anyone can go out and buy a tag this year and go out and hunt moose.
[01:05:26] And if you harvest one, then I'm chasing out next year or dear the following year. There's other things that we could be doing instead of just boom, shutting it all down. It's LEH only. And I think we should be exploring those other options as well if, uh, but we, we need to know what numbers are when we say a 50% decline in, in the moose kill or harvest or hunt, what does that actually mean when, when we look at the cold, hard numbers?
[01:05:54] So, um, I mean, you can go out five minutes from town here in Dawson and, and see herds, very large herds of moose right now from what I see in my backyard. Now, don't come chasing critters in my backyard this season, just cause I'm throwing this out there. The numbers are not drastically down on moose in this region, period.
[01:06:14] Um, is there a lot more added pressure lately? Yes. Um, has industry drastically affected it? Yeah. Stewart Lake area used to be the thickest moose population in the world. And that's definitely been you, you can't go take a hundred steps without crossing another cut line or pipeline or welLEHead. It's, it's definitely affected it.
[01:06:36] So, but, but, but a complete shutdown to me isn't the answer. Are there other things we should be looking at? For sure.
[01:06:43] Jay Nichol: Yeah. I think, uh, oh, go ahead, Kev.
[01:06:47] Kevin Toye: Oh, I, I, I think the, a lot of guys, you know, I mean, I, I don't ever, uh, put in for LEH up into 7B. Um, but I know, I think a lot of the guys are fearful that if it goes into an LEH system, is it gonna, are you gonna get it back?
[01:07:02] You know what I mean?
[01:07:03] Aaron Mathais: Right. Well, and I truly believe that sheep will be next. We'll see them go LEH within three years as well. The path that we're on is, uh, that's, that's what it's pointing toward. And then if, if, if this really puts a push on, if we shut down moose, um, what's our elk hunt gonna look like next year?
[01:07:24] Everyone that still comes up here and hunts, well, I guess we're just not hunting moose. We're all gonna hunt l so then you'll see their numbers drop and in the next couple years, boom, they'll go LEH as well.
[01:07:34] Devon Gassoff: Yeah, and and the thing about that is it goes back to what Jay said earlier is that just puts pressure on all the other areas of British Columbia.
[01:07:42] Yep. So, ,
[01:07:44] Nolan Osborne: if I could touch on that, Devon. Um, I, I do still guide. I spend basically the first week of July through the middle of October every year, um, in, in northern BC in 7B. And, you know, we're f I'm very fortunate to work where I do. We don't really see a lot of resident pressure and certainly for moose it's kind of limited.
[01:08:04] We're all horseback and, and there isn't a lot of lakes where we are. So, uh, where that, where that pressure comes in is, uh, very concentrated and it's actually not, we just don't hunt those areas, right. It's easy for us to hop on a pony and, and ride 30 K into the mountains and, and never see anyone else.
[01:08:19] Um, but you know, I've heard some of that. Same sentiment passed around, not from actual guides, but sort of this idea from, um, from some resident hunters that maybe guides do support that. And obviously I can't speak for the GOA BC or every guide in the province, but, um, you know, there's a lot of outfitters that that could stand to lose everything on this.
[01:08:39] We're, we're very fortunate we're in a sheep rich, uh, environment, relatively speaking. Certainly not as, not as many sheep as, as some other areas. Um, but if you look at that from my understanding of it, what they're looking at doing is basically giving, giving every outfit or something like four moose each on an allocation.
[01:08:57] Um, you know, and so if you are an outfit like Stone Mountain say that has, uh, you know, an annual allocation of sale around 15, 16 stone sheep, you're gonna be. Like, you just dial back, you don't run horses for moose and, and you dial back your moose hunts and stuff like that. And sure it hurts, but you know, you're already doing enough revenue in sheep hunts that it's, it's gonna be fine, especially with the trajectory that that sheep are going to.
[01:09:21] But if you look at other areas like say the bessa, which, which would have something like maybe three sheep a year, um, you know, it's gonna be hard for, for folks like that to make ends meet, you know, when they, when they only have. Three sheep to hunt, and then the rest of their season is, is like moose, caribou, and elk as well.
[01:09:40] So I, I do think it is a little bit, um, I, I don't necessarily agree that that guides are out there or outfitters are out there saying, yeah, this is gonna be a great thing. Uh, I, I think that is one of the issues within the province that I've seen as a, as both a resident and a guide, uh, is that we seem to spend so much time as residents fighting about who has a bigger piece of the pie that we're really taken away from looking at how much pie is left.
[01:10:07] Um, and, and you know, when we focus on that, instead of focusing on pushing the government to, to manage wildlife with science and to make sure that, you know, as, as Kyle said, and others have said here, that that wildlife is actually an important thing in this province. Like to me, that is the number one, beyond what opportunity we have, it doesn't matter how much we fight about who has more opportunity, when, when we just.
[01:10:31] Continue to watch these things happen, right? And, and time and time again we've seen that it's, it's not about science, it's not about actually, you know, it's not that there's a moose decline and that they're restricting this or you know, even with the big horn sheep in region four, right? Like, we need to be holding our government accountable in some way or trying to push towards saying like, look, putting things on LEH is not enough.
[01:10:53] There needs to be a commitment to wildlife. There needs to be a commitment to rehabilitation. Um, and, and you know, I think too as well, like, again, to plug the Sheep Society, it's a great, great opportunity for people beyond just. Uh, you know, signing these Act NOW campaigns or the HOWL stuff, like find these organizations within the province that put money back on the ground and support them in any way you can.
[01:11:14] Right? Like, if you can give 10 bucks or a thousand or whatever it is. Like there's, there's ways to do that. There's, you know, the habitat, um, sorry, the Nature Trust Foundation, habitat Conservation Trust Foundation, they're charitable. The Sheep Society now has a charitable branch to it. Like, if there's people looking for ways to, you know, save on tax dollars or whatever, and really make a difference, I think we also need to, we need to be advocates and, and put our money back into this with the organizations that really do move the needle.
[01:11:44] Tyler Freel: Ab. Absolutely. Nolan, um, one of the things I do just want to touch on before we kind of wrap this thing up is when I talk to people, um, Outside of our hunting sphere, right? The first thing they ask me is, the tide is d do we, do we need to shut down the caribou hunt? Like, are they hurting? Do we need to cut the amount of moose tags in half?
[01:12:05] And to kinda speak a little bit to the point that you just brought up, Nolan is like, I think a lot of us, we get so busy worrying about our piece of the pie. We kind of, we don't know how much pie is left. Right? Um, so, so Jay and I have been sharing our, our, uh, obsessive compulsive notes, you know, uh, for a week here.
[01:12:27] And, uh, I'll throw it over to Jay. He's kind of got our, our kind of moose and caribou stuff that we've been compiling here. I know it came up earlier in this podcast and, uh, we kind of moved away from it. But I, I'd like to just kind of give the audience a, a scope of sort of where we're at right now. If you wanna let her rip Jay.
[01:12:47] Jay Nichol: Absolutely. Thanks, Ty. Okay, so the current population estimate is, 60,637. Now, a sustainable harvest for moose. That's for moose, yeah. Yeah, for moose. Um, and a sustainable harvest for moose would be five to 10% of that population. And if you, and if you had wolf control, uh, in those zones, you could go up as high as 15 to 20%.
[01:13:13] Um, there's currently wolf control for caribou recovery in 12 different management units. So to put some numbers to that, a sustainable moose harvest would be somewhere between forty eight hundred and 7ty five hundred in the peace region. Currently, the government is proposing limiting the harvest to 635 animals, which is about 10% of what a, an arguably sustainable, uh, harvest.
[01:13:46] Uh, target would be. So there's currently, as we've all discussed, no scientific support to close caribou hunting or reduce the, the model hunter harvest by 50% net loss. And just to put some actual, like meat to those numbers. If we wanted to reduce the hunter harvest by 50%, you would need to have up to a 70 to 80% reduction in hunters that would result in a 75 to 85% reduction in hunter days and the potential economic impact to the region.
[01:14:24] By not having those bodies up there. Hunting those days is estimated to be somewhere between 14 and 16 million to those regions. And for anybody who's been up there, there's whole communities that like, don't see a whole lot of action. Um, and really, you know, there's probably entire hotels that only exist because of the money that they're able to make during hunt season.
[01:14:48] Uh, so we just wanted to put those are numbers that we, that we don't, um, that we do feel pretty, pretty comfortable sharing. And so I don't think it's a stretch that there, there's, this is a pretty aggressive over response, so.
[01:15:06] Aaron Mathais: Do we know how many animals were harvested this year or in the last season? How many moose?
[01:15:12] The, I think it was around 1300. Was it not? Yeah, I It's 1280 or something.
[01:15:16] Tyler Freel: I wish Dylan was still on the line because Jesse from B C W F, um, actually did have that data on their podcast. They just did. It's,
[01:15:24] Jay Nichol: it's less than 2% Hunter harvest for moose and 7B is less than 2% success rate. It's insane.
[01:15:29] Yeah, and I think that's the number, the number that I shared, like, because they want 50% less and the, the, the way we come up with that being 635 animals is that is 50% of what they took last year. So I think there was approximately 1,270 moose taken in 7B I gotta look that up to confirm it. But that's my understanding of, of what went on.
[01:15:51] We're literally talking about less than 1300 moose here that were taken, and that's the number that they want to cut in half.
[01:15:59] Aaron Mathais: To me, that's what we really need to push out there to, to the masses. These are the numbers. It's come at them with cold hard facts. This is where we're sitting. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
[01:16:09] Jay Nichol: So I think we've done a good job of, of getting everything out there. I don't, I'm probably not good to just kind of keep beating the same points. I think if anybody's got a burning desire to get something else out there, we'll kind of open the floor. But other than that, I wanna reiterate real quick, wild Sheep Society of BC Act Now Campaign.
[01:16:30] Go there, follow it. HOWL for wildlife HOWL.org, you can go there and hit up all 86 MLA's in a big couple clicks of a mouse. And then the, uh, trapping, angling and hunting website where you can directly oppose register your opposition. Um, so there's three different kind of courses of action, and then the fourth would be booking appointments directly with MLA's and getting friends and family support on board.
[01:17:05] Tyler Freel: So before we kill this thing, I just, I want to thank everybody for, uh, coming online here and taking the time outta your everybody's busy schedule. I know everybody has families and lives and, um, this is just so important to all of us. I think it, uh, it was great to have everybody on board and it's always good to chat with everybody here, so I really appreciate it guys.
[01:17:25] Thank you doing it together. Thank you. Thanks guys. Yep. Thanks a lot guys. Cool. Thanks everyone. Thanks guys. Thanks for putting this together. T.