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Transcript

[00:00:00] Travis Bader: I'm Travis Badder, and this is the Silvercore Podcast. Silvercore has been providing its members with the skills and knowledge necessary to be confident and proficient in the outdoors for over 20 years, and we make it easier for people to deepen their connection to the natural world. If you enjoy the positive and educational content we provide, please let others know by sharing, commenting and following so that you can join in on everything that Silvercore stands for.

[00:00:40] If you'd like to learn more about becoming a member of the Silvercore Club and community, visit our website at silvercore.ca.

[00:00:58] I'm joined today by the registered lobbyist and managing director of the Canadian Sporting Arms and Ammunition Association. Welcome to the Silvercore Podcast, Jennifer Gadbois. 

[00:01:10] Jenn Gadbois: 

[00:01:10] Hi Travis. 

[00:01:10] Thank you so much for having me. 

[00:01:12] Travis Bader: And I wanna make sure I pronounce that right, didn't I? 

[00:01:15] Jenn Gadbois: You did. Absolutely . 

[00:01:16] Travis Bader: Excellent.

[00:01:17] You know the number of times I've had difficulties with French last names and I don't know why I, I had Catherine, Catherine Laflemme and I accidentally said Catherine La-phlegm and, uh, felt really bad about that afterwards. Or Seb LaVoie. . 

[00:01:33] Jenn Gadbois: Yeah, when it's, those French 

[00:01:34] names are hard to 

[00:01:35] get, 

[00:01:36] Travis Bader: uh, especially for guy out in BC here.

[00:01:39] Jenn Gadbois: Oh yeah, exactly. 

[00:01:40] Travis Bader: Seb LaVoie, I'm sorry for bushing your name, the first time that we did a podcast together, but Jen Gadbois. So I'm looking on your Instagram feed. I see that you recently got yourself a banded goose it looks like . 

[00:01:55] Jenn Gadbois: Yes, I did. Um, , my friend that was hunting with me actually kept the band. But yeah, it was pretty neat.

[00:02:02] It was the first one that I had gotten. Oh, okay. Well Goose. Anyway, but 

[00:02:06] Travis Bader: so your friend, did your friend uh, uh, shoot the bird? Is that why they kept the band? 

[00:02:12] Jenn Gadbois: Um, I'm 

[00:02:12] honestly not sure who shot the bird . It was a big, it was one of those, it was a big flock that came in and five fell and they were all kind of in the same group.

[00:02:23] So who knows whose bee-bees hit that one. 

[00:02:26] Travis Bader: I hear ya. You know, I always, I always find it funny how excited people get about getting a banded goose and something that they've, obviously other people have touched and they've put a band on this thing. But how the opposite is true if you find, let's say a, a tagged animal out there, right?

[00:02:46] Nobody wants, or a collared animal. 

[00:02:48] Jenn Gadbois: Yeah. 

[00:02:49] No one wants to touch that. 

[00:02:50] Travis Bader: No, 

[00:02:51] but you get a, 

[00:02:51] Jenn Gadbois: that's true. 

[00:02:52] Travis Bader: You get a banded bird and I mean, you're, you're on cloud nine. This is, uh, something, uh, something to brag about. 

[00:02:59] Jenn Gadbois: Yeah. I feel like people can say like, oh, I didn't know it had a band, so Right. Shot it and then it was just sort of like that added little 

[00:03:04] trophy.

[00:03:05] Travis Bader: So you're, you're waiting to hear the report back, I guess? 

[00:03:09] Jenn Gadbois: Yeah, 

[00:03:09] exactly. We filled out the report online and there was no information in the system yet. So, um, sometimes if you email in or send it in by snail mail, you'll get a report back. So we'll wait and see how old this guy is and where he came from.

[00:03:23] Travis Bader: Very cool. So you and I have been trying to connect for some time. I mean, we first met, I think it was, was what? C U S F, the University Shooting Federation that we volunteer on. 

[00:03:33] Jenn Gadbois: That was a while ago. That was in the winter. 

[00:03:35] Travis Bader: It was. And then, uh, TCOM, we met up at Tcom, but man, that was pretty busy. 

[00:03:40] Jenn Gadbois: Yes. 

[00:03:41] Travis Bader: And the last time we tried to get a podcast together, we hope we had internet connection issues.

[00:03:47] And we're hoping right now that our issues are solved. But we're gonna find out at the end of this. Yes. Uh, there is, there is such a delay. And we rescheduled. And right after we rescheduled, there is a great announcement about the handgun freeze. Mm-hmm. . And obviously That's right. And now given your position and given what you do, that obviously takes priority of sitting down and having a chat with me.

[00:04:09] And, uh, you're responsible to all of the members and businesses of the CS Triple A. 

[00:04:15] Jenn Gadbois: Yeah, 

[00:04:16] of course. I mean, obviously that was extremely concerning for all of our members, and people had so many questions and there were no answers. So our phones were ringing off a hook and . 

[00:04:27] Travis Bader: No kidding. 

[00:04:27] Jenn Gadbois: Busy. Busy. 

[00:04:29] Travis Bader: So I, I guess we're looking at what October 30th is supposed to be, the implementation date of the ordering council firearms.

[00:04:39] Prohibition. Everyone's the quote I'm doing air quotes if the video's not coming through. Yeah. Uh, a assault weapon, uh, ban in Canada here. Um, how, what's a scuttlebutt on, uh, the CSAAA side? What, what are you guys seeing on this? 

[00:04:56] Jenn Gadbois: Uh, they don't seem to know exactly how they're gonna implement this yet, and it doesn't seem like any of the law enforcement are up to help.

[00:05:05] Um, Canada Post, I can see a lot of other shipping agencies being pretty nervous to help out. I mean, a lot of them would probably be uncomfortable moving mass amounts of firearms to and from different locations. Um, so yeah, I think they're going to be in for a lot more work than they anticipated. A lot more money than they anticipated because they haven't gotten anywhere yet and they're already millions into 

[00:05:30] it.

[00:05:31] Travis Bader: Wow. You, you know, I can only imagine. Let's take firearms out of law abiding individual's hands, put them into a mail system where they now have to be mailed back during a mass mailing when everybody knows what's in these long boxes and exactly how enticing would that be to the criminal element or those who wish to get their firearms by nefarious means?

[00:05:55] Is it just, it just boggles my mind. 

[00:05:59] Jenn Gadbois: Yeah, it's like a one-stop shop. I mean, , they're, they're gonna be tracking these, they're gonna be watching, they're, they're just laughing right now. Of 

[00:06:07] course, 

[00:06:08] Travis Bader: you know, I had, um, three handguns many years ago, three handguns Glocks that were shipped over from, uh, north Vancouver from another firearms business over to Delta, which is really not that far at all.

[00:06:21] I could have just driven over and picked them up, but, you know, time's precious. So, yeah. Cool. You opt for. Up, up for the shipping and they never arrived. So Canada Post says, all right, yep. They disappeared when they were in our possession and police report was filed. And, uh, police do their thing. Insurance for Canada Post kicks in, they pay the, uh, the distributor and they ship three more handguns over.

[00:06:48] And for the longest time in our business, inventory , those three firearms that never made it to our door, stayed in our business inventory. And I'd always, oh, no. Yeah. And I, I'd tell the fires program, I said, what are they doing here? Right? I've never taken receipt of them. Uh, the distributor who shipped them out, I mean, they clearly have given it over to Canada Post to ship it.

[00:07:14] And the firearms program says, oh, no, no, no. We'll keep 'em in your inventory. And that way if they ever show up, you've got three free guns. . I'm like, that's not how insurance works. Like these belong to Canada Post to the insurance company. Right. And for them to dispose of or recoup their costs or, 

[00:07:30] Jenn Gadbois: and do you 

[00:07:30] really want your name attached to three guns that like God knows where they 

[00:07:34] are, 

[00:07:34] Travis Bader: and that's it.

[00:07:35] And they were so stubborn and they refuse and they say, you get free guns back. And so over the years they started surfacing and they come up and they say, oh, you can come up and pick up your here handgun. Like, I got my handgun. I got what I paid for. and then it went back and forth and then they agreed, oh, right, no, this is the insurance companies, but we'll still keep it registered in your business inventory.

[00:07:58] You know, I really have to wonder of all the unique situations that come up for the firearms program and the amount of discretionary power that is employed, which would be contradictory to another firearm's officer's discretionary power. And then you introduce something like this Bill C 21, and then the O I C, uh, where there doesn't seem to be any clear direction where, where you have provinces like Jason Kenny and Alberta and there, uh, Terry Bryant, there's Chief Firearms Officer has just recently come out and said, yeah, we're, we're not putting any money towards this.

[00:08:36] I know we've got the RCMP here, but we're paying for policing for public safety. We don't see this helping public safety. Feds, you're on your own. . 

[00:08:45] Jenn Gadbois: Exactly. They can't take people off the streets who are fighting the root cause. Mm-hmm. to entertain a political, I don't know, smoke in mirror stunt . 

[00:08:57] Travis Bader: Well, and from my perspective, and albeit I am biased, uh, but it absolutely looks like a smoke and mirror stunt, and it's designed to, uh, just put the opposition and pigeonhole them into a category.

[00:09:14] Jenn Gadbois: Absolutely. 

[00:09:15] Unfortunately, that seems to be the case, 

[00:09:17] Travis Bader: but I'm looking and it looks like Saskatchewan, Manitoba have also, is, is that true? Did I read that right? I'm tr I've been outta town for a bit. 

[00:09:25] Jenn Gadbois: Yeah, 

[00:09:25] yeah. Um, they don't wanna send their R C M P resources to confiscate any firearms or implement the 

[00:09:32] ban either.

[00:09:33] Travis Bader: Wow. And, and I think Alberta, did they not go a little bit above that and they said, look, we're, we're gonna do what we can legally to prevent the federal government from. Removing these firearms from law abiding individuals. 

[00:09:49] Jenn Gadbois: Yeah. They're 

[00:09:50] gonna assist in the existing legal challenges, which I think is fantastic.

[00:09:54] Travis Bader: Wow. BC we're talking to you. Wake up. Yeah. , join, join the team 

[00:10:00] Jenn Gadbois: Ontario. Hello, . Yeah. Yeah. , 

[00:10:04] um, yes. Some people to work on, but I guess at least he got the ball. Ball rolling. It kind of made a point. 

[00:10:11] Travis Bader: Yeah. And I, I, from what I understand, I think Mendocino says, no, this is untenable. You know, you can't go against a federal law and have a province just, just not listen to it.

[00:10:22] Yeah. Or do the opposite of it. And, and it is a tricky situation, but I, I don't think, I think there's precedent. I think that, uh, Quebec has, um, when they decided that when the Long Gun registry was abolished and they decided to go in a different direction or even BC with a drug laws, 

[00:10:40] Jenn Gadbois: that's it. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:10:43] Travis Bader: So I, I, I would think that there are some precedents of provinces enacting policy as they see fit and, and enforcing legislation and regulation as they see fit. Um, aside from this one, 

[00:10:57] Jenn Gadbois: especially if they're paying for these resources, they have to make sure that they are used as effectively and efficiently as 

[00:11:02] possible, right?

[00:11:05] Travis Bader: So what is, what does it look like being, I, I have no idea what a lobbyist does. What, what is a registered lobbyist, especially in a firearms world. What, what does that entail? 

[00:11:17] Jenn Gadbois: So I had no idea what a lobbyist was, um, less than a year ago before I started on CSAAA . Fair enough. Okay. So, yeah, no, this has been a great learning curve for me.

[00:11:28] Um, meet a lot with the lawmakers, um, the politicians that debate the legislations to try and. offer insight, consultation, um, you know, influence laws that are going to negatively impact the firearm industry or hunting industry without providing any public safety. Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:51] Yeah. 

[00:11:52] Travis Bader: Well, what are some of the biggest things that you're hearing back from, from businesses?

[00:11:56] What are some of the challenges that you're hearing? 

[00:11:59] Jenn Gadbois: They're just never given any clear direction and never enough time. I mean, the import freeze was pushed through on August 19th. We were told that they weren't going to ban imports until everything was decided with Bill C 21. Um, and then of course, our members had orders out.

[00:12:17] They order out months in advance, and now they're scrambling to either cancel these orders or rush them in because they're gonna lose stock if they get stopped at the border. . Wow. So yeah, there's tons of challenges. These regulations are never clear. They just sort of write them out and say, here, figure it out.

[00:12:34] And we are left scrambling to figure out who has the answers and what the answers are. A lot of the times, the questions that we ask haven't even been considered yet. So it's a little challenging every time in new regulation comes out. 

[00:12:47] Travis Bader: Isn't 

[00:12:47] that interesting? How often do you find that you come up with questions and they're like, wow, that's a good question.

[00:12:52] I don't know. 

[00:12:54] Jenn Gadbois: Um, I'd say about every single time a new legislation comes out, I mean, with Bill C 21, even though that's not, um, you know, enforced or anything like that yet, there was. Tons of things that they didn't even even take into consideration. There's the magazine restrictions. We asked how that was going to work with non-detectable magazines because the bill didn't specify and they kind of looked at us like, what is a Nont Detachable magazine?

[00:13:21] And, um, bill C 71 put on a lot of administrative burdens for the businesses cuz they have to get reference numbers now when selling non-restricted firearms or transferring non-restricted firearms. And, you know, we had a lot of questions about consignment or people that didn't have emails or gun shows.

[00:13:38] And because, um, sorry, I say gun shows because the call-in centers only open basically banker hours and gun shows are usually weekends. Right. So that was all stuff that they never took into consideration, kind of gave us a blank look and said, oh, we, we have to bring that back to the drawing table and figure it out.

[00:13:56] Travis Bader: Yeah. Well, at Tacomm there, they had, um, some firearms offices. They had a booth and they're just, oh, it looked like they were just doing an informational session. ? 

[00:14:06] Jenn Gadbois: I think so, yeah. Um, it was a few of the CFOs that we work with and they've been fantastic to work with, but unfortunately they're just like us.

[00:14:15] These legislations are just dropped on them the exact same time. They're dropped on us and they're left to figure it out on their own as well. So I think they're just trying to offer that information and try and avoid any intense questioning. 

[00:14:29] Travis Bader: I gotta wonder, um, like I like what Alberta's doing. I like the fact that people are able to step up and have a voice when there's laws that are passed unanimously without debate.

[00:14:39] I mean, I, I guess it's freeze that's going through is, uh, essentially going through the proper protocol in order to, uh, yeah. In, you know, the word freeze would imply possibly a thaw at some time, but I think the very specific choice of that word instead of ban, uh, is kind of interesting perhaps telling.

[00:15:01] Jenn Gadbois: Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:15:03] Travis Bader: But. I wonder, I deal with firearms officers in every province and territory, and some are just absolutely phenomenal to work with. Um, some understand all of the difficulties or the majority of the difficulties that individuals and businesses that are putting up with and having to deal with.

[00:15:25] And some just like human nature, uh, start enacting their own policy and start enacting, interpreting things in their, in a different way. And perhaps they get tired of people asking questions or challenging, challenging them and, uh, start getting their backs up. And those are the ones that I find the, um, the scariest and the uh, uh, sort of the most difficult to deal with.

[00:15:54] Jenn Gadbois: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, especially if they're not agreeable, you're working, I guess, basically for these individuals and these businesses, but. , if you're, if there's a stigma or if you're against them in any way, then it's just not really fair dealing with these people. Um, I, I get what you're saying. I think because yeah, there's a lot of CFOs that I work with that are just phenomenal and they emphasize and they have all the answers.

[00:16:19] Well, they try and give you all the answers and then some just won't really give you the time of day. And if you're stuck there won't, I don't care. Deal with it. 

[00:16:28] Me too. 

[00:16:29] Travis Bader: You know, it's difficult when the, uh, a firearms officer will work in an advisory capacity cuz they'll say time and time again they are a, not an enforcement branch to the R C M P.

[00:16:39] Uh, back in the day it was the, uh, they call it Canada Firearms. And I know a fellow, he set up a, uh, website called Firearms Canada, basically did bleed off all of the people trying to find, uh, Canada Firearms. And they found Firearms Canada, which is a buy-in sell and. Anyways, he got a lot of hate when he first started that one, but over the years, uh, it evolved and they started putting the buffalo head on the cards and became a division of the RCMP, the RCMP Firearms Program.

[00:17:09] And I was told, uh, by more than one firearms officer that some of the reasoning behind that was to give the, uh, idea of an enforcement body behind it and who, because they weren't getting the compliance that they were hoping to get. So if they could make it a division of the rcmp, but a, um, administrative division and not a, uh, an enforcement division, then uh, perhaps they can get better compliance.

[00:17:38] Um, so maybe that was their opinion that they were relaying to me. I don't know. Maybe that was just sort of the common, uh, the zeitgeist, the, the kind of common talk. But it's, um, as an advisory. Branch cuz they advise both the RCMP and the businesses and the in individuals. Yes. I haven't seen a legislative framework that holds them accountable to, um, to some of their core tasks and, uh, which creates a really interesting, and maybe it's there, maybe a listener will say, hell no.

[00:18:17] There's a full on legislative framework for this. But I know some lawyers in the past looked at it and specific looking at, let's say, uh, issuing instructor certifications. If you want, if you want to have new instructors out there so that people can have access to taking a course, which is deemed a mandatory safety course in order to be able to get your firearms license.

[00:18:37] Uh, apparently there does not exist a legislative framework that compels a firearms officer to make new instructors. And there's a, there's a number of other, uh, areas like that. So as, as I look at that and in my small dealings as a business dealing with the different provinces and there's some out there that are, uh, obstinate and difficult to deal with, there's some out there that are great to deal with.

[00:19:01] Um, I can only imagine from your position as the Canadian Sporting Arms and Ammunition Association that you probably get a lot of conflicting information from the different provinces and different individuals that you deal with, and you probably en encounter a lot of the same challenges that I do.

[00:19:24] Jenn Gadbois: Well, 

[00:19:24] absolutely. I. , of course this is gonna be no surprise, but even with the government, the people that make these regulations, you know, will ask one question to one team and they'll, you know, give us an answer, and then the next team kind of gives us a contradicting answer. And we're like, well, we, we were told this.

[00:19:40] And they're like, oh yeah, we'll have to reconnect with that person and we'll see what the communication got mixed up. Like, geez, . But yeah. And even with, um, the Canadian Firearms Program recently, we had members calling in to do transfers online and they kept calling the business line, but then they'd get redirected to the individual line.

[00:20:00] Mm-hmm. And we were wondering like, what's going on with this? I mean, why are our businesses being booted over to the individual line, just to wait 20 minutes and get disconnected and mm-hmm. , I guess there was a miscommunication and they were never supposed to be redirected, but it just happened, I guess after a memo went out.

[00:20:18] So , yeah. Maybe some people do misinterpret things. Differently. 

[00:20:22] Travis Bader: Well, you know, the, I know some people will specifically shop firearms officers until they get one that says something that's favorable to whatever their question might be, and then they'll hold onto that one. The fact, the fact that we're able to shop for favorable opinion is, um, is kind of scary.

[00:20:41] Jenn Gadbois: It's terrifying. 

[00:20:42] The answer should be the answer, not let me just call back five times until I get the answer I want. 

[00:20:47] Travis Bader: Right. And the fact that there's, uh, a whole criminal repercussion framework, all or all around if you make the wrong decision or if you're perceived to be making the wrong decision, albeit operating off of, um, authorization or, or the, uh, the say so of a firearms officer.

[00:21:07] It doesn't. an individual or a business from having to go through a criminal or civil process in order just to clear things up. 

[00:21:17] Jenn Gadbois: Exactly. 

[00:21:18] And so many of these firearm laws are so unclear that people can unintentionally be breaking the law, um, . So even with, you know, like they'll C 21 and C 71, there's so many little regulations in there that people have no idea exist just yet.

[00:21:34] Mm-hmm. . So yeah, like the replica firearms people, I mean, they might not know that their replicas are about to be prohibited, or there's plenty of people that had firearms that are on the May 1st ban that had no idea that their firearms were impacted. So, yeah. The, uh, so clarity is not 

[00:21:50] in our favor. 

[00:21:51] Travis Bader: So talk to me about replicas.

[00:21:54] Jenn Gadbois: Yeah. . So through CSAAA, I'm working a lot with, uh, some major stakeholders in the United States and Canada that work in the replica fi replica firearm industry. And we're working on the replica firearm portion of Bill C 21. So just trying to make suggestions so that we don't have to completely wipe out that section of the industry altogether.

[00:22:17] Um, working with public safety to try and give insight consultation, working with various Airsoft groups to see how the consumers are feeling and what they're doing on their end, such as writing their mps. 

[00:22:32] Travis Bader: So have they, have they taken a, a broader definition of what a replica is now? Is that what's changing?

[00:22:38] Cuz they've always said replica firearms are for a long time now anyways, they said replica firearms are prohibited. , but everyone's got a difficult idea understanding what a replica firearm is. The firearms program would come back and they'd tell me, and they'd say, well, it, it identically resembles a firearm but is not a firearm.

[00:22:55] I said, oh, okay. So I've got this training gun we use on safety courses, right? And it's been deactivated. They said, no, no, no, no. We call that disabled now. Okay, so it's been disabled. Fair enough. Um, carries the same legal repercussions as a fully live firearm, although it'll never go bang again. Uh, it looks just like it, but it, it's no longer a firearm.

[00:23:15] Doesn't go bang. They said, no, no, it was developed as a firearm. You're fine with that, that you, you can have that one. And in fact, if you deactivate that one that looks just like a firearm, it's not a replica. Cuz it at one point was a firearm, so it wasn't intended to be developed as a replica. So it really got us scratching their head and it, I had some firearms officers come through at one point and they said, Um, and they went to the local, uh, I think it was Dave Surplus and some of the um, uh, places that were selling blue guns and red guns, like as sb.

[00:23:47] Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And they said those, those are replica firearms, right? . And there was, so I said, well, hold on a second. We have to train people how to use these things is for, uh, use of force and defensive measures and you'd want us use real guns. So they went back and they're scratching their heads, but, oh,

[00:24:07] So is that what's happening now is that they're changing, they're expanding the definition of what a, a replica is? 

[00:24:13] Jenn Gadbois: Well, they wanna prohibit replica firearms because there's concern that law enforcement will, you know, mix up and possibly shoot, I guess somebody that has a replica firearm thinking it's a real firearm.

[00:24:25] So they say there's no way to identify, um, . The problem is they consider a replica. They say something that repre, um, replicates with neuro precision. Right? A real firearm. So we said, well, what does that entail? I mean, what criteria are you putting that under? Mm-hmm. and I guess the CBSA agent that imports the firearm is the one to decide if it's a replica or not.

[00:24:51] So there's intentionally a broad definition so that they can kind of just put everything under one big umbrella. . 

[00:24:59] Travis Bader: Yeah. And then of course, the border services has a different framework that they deal with, and all of a sudden you can have things that are perfectly legal in Canada, but you can't import without facing criminal repercussions or having your, your property seize.

[00:25:14] Exactly. Yeah. It's same with like knife, uh, knife laws. They can say, oh, that's a flick knife. And it's, it's a prohibited thing, but you can go to your local house and knives and, and purchase this no problem. 

[00:25:27] Jenn Gadbois: Yeah. 

[00:25:27] It causes a lot of issues whenever they leave it up to the individual person to decide 

[00:25:33] Travis Bader: it does.

[00:25:34] Um, it, I wonder, is there a way to be able to hold the firearms program accountable, uh, without dragging it through such a long, uh, uh, the court process? So, I, I guess what I'm, I'm wondering here is, um, with varying definitions and varying opinions on how things are to be enacted. Ultimately, it'll go to the trier of fact to take a look at the, uh, the laws and come up with a, um, a court ruling, which can take forever and can be circumvented overnight by ordering council if the government wished.

[00:26:15] But I'm wondering if advocacy groups would be able to take a very public position of shining light on the issues that are coming up to a point where it's very hard for the, those that are, uh, taking different interpretations of policy, of reg regulations or legislation to kind of hide in the shadows.

[00:26:42] Jenn Gadbois: Yeah, I think we've gotten to a point where we have to be a lot more vocal about this. Um, and that's definitely something that I. I even need to do, um, myself is talk about that more because they're basically making these regulations so that these businesses can't effectively conduct business. We have members losing sales because of the reference number, um, regulations.

[00:27:05] I mean, people have unsolvable stock because of all of these bands. Individuals don't know the actual laws, the air . Mm-hmm. getting stuck with these firearms that they have to destroy because they can't transfer them down to their, um, sons or daughters or relatives. So, yeah, I think at a certain point, I mean, all of these regulations making it impossible for lawful citizens to just enjoy their hobby or conduct businesses.

[00:27:30] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. , I'm wondering, it's gotta be difficult. So I, I've, you know, talking with the CFR and the NFA in the, uh, , uh, cssa, and of course CSAAA with yourself, which deals mostly with businesses. Uh, I, I know that there are some that would want to hold things close to their chest cuz they're very politically minded and they have an idea of how the game is played and don't want to embarrass people if they can give them an out, in a certain way to be able to achieve a means of, uh, uh, some sort of favorable resolution.

[00:28:10] But I'm wondering if we actually need some sort of a branch out there whose sole intent is just to embarrass. Right? Just to put right. Just to call out and just say like, this is ludicrous. Right. And.

[00:28:24] Because cuz I got terabytes of data, I got boxes and boxes of data. After doing this since 2003, I've got a lot of stuff that I've kind of just been holding onto and um, I'm wondering if perhaps I should start calling out some of these things. Nova Scotia, I'm talking to you

[00:28:44] Jenn Gadbois: Um, and that's it. I, people need to be aware of what's going on. Like, I wasn't even completely aware of it until I started with CSAAA and then there was a whole other stone to in turn with the industry side of things and the whole other pile of issues to unpack on the firearm side. . 

[00:29:01] Travis Bader: Yeah. Yeah. And, and it's a difficult knowing how to navigate that one properly.

[00:29:06] Like is this a legal issue? Is this a look at? We'll just go and have a conversation with them and see what we can figure out. Is this a, a media issue? Get the media. Because I, I, exactly. Uh, I, I held the, uh, the firearms program and RCMP accountable a number of years ago. That was, uh, eight years it took, but, uh, not many.

[00:29:25] Oh, not many people have that level of, uh, time and dedication and, but, uh, uh, it turned out, um, well, the, uh, uh, one police officer ended up, uh, losing their job and was criminally convicted. And I don't know really what happened at the, uh, the firearms program side. Uh, I know the, I was in told that an early retirement happened, but maybe it was a regular retirement.

[00:29:51] Who knows? 

[00:29:51] Jenn Gadbois: Oh, wow. Okay. 

[00:29:52] Travis Bader: That, um, there's a, uh, some people can Google that one and there's look in the newspapers every, uh, a public thing there. Yeah. 

[00:30:02] Jenn Gadbois: I might just look into that just for my own 

[00:30:04] knowledge. 

[00:30:04] Travis Bader: Yeah. But it's, it, it gets me wondering groups like the CSAAA. You guys have to now navigate this process of we want them to talk to us and they're not gonna talk to us if we just, uh, rub their nose in it every two seconds.

[00:30:22] Although that's good for memberships. 

[00:30:24] Jenn Gadbois: That's it. 

[00:30:25] Travis Bader: Great. 

[00:30:26] Jenn Gadbois: We still have to play nice and everything just so that they'll at least, cuz I mean, they'll always sit down and meet with us. And of course they might not be giving us the most accurate or truthful information. I don't know, 

[00:30:37] Travis Bader: Sure. Yeah. 

[00:30:38] Or maybe it's the most accurate and truthful to their 

[00:30:41] understanding, 

[00:30:41] Jenn Gadbois: to their own knowledge.

[00:30:42] That's the thing. There's just, it's like a game of telephone it seems. Sometimes we'll just hear different messages from each person down the line. Hmm. Um, but yeah, we still have to be able to work with these people because they're the lawmakers at the end of the day. 

[00:30:57] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. You know, well, the politicians will come and go.

[00:31:01] The civil servants will will be there throughout. And there's a level of we have to learn how to work together in here too. So, 

[00:31:10] Jenn Gadbois: And work with 

[00:31:11] whatever government's in power 

[00:31:13] Travis Bader: and work with whatever government's in power without having doors shut in your face because you did a, um, a, a big call out on them, which maybe it's dessert.

[00:31:22] Jenn Gadbois: Yeah, absolutely. . 

[00:31:24] Travis Bader: Maybe, maybe I'm just, maybe, 

[00:31:26] maybe I'm just yapping, , 

[00:31:28] uh, I don't know. Some people 

[00:31:29] Jenn Gadbois: need to be 

[00:31:30] called out. 

[00:31:31] Travis Bader: Sure. What, what are some of the other challenges that you're, you're finding that, uh, you're helping assist businesses with 

[00:31:38] Jenn Gadbois: shipping is a big issue. Canada Post won't ship ammunition anymore, can par won't ship ammunition.

[00:31:45] So business to customer or even business to business ammunition, shipping, especially to remote areas is nearly impossible. About 25% of Canadians can't get ammunition shipped to them, and I feel as though people in remote areas may need it the most for protection from wildlife or substance hunting. Um, so that's an issue that we're working with.

[00:32:08] We're working with Canada posts so that they can try and change their dangerous goods regulations, um, certifications to be able to ship ammunition again, because they seem to be the only. shipping group that can reach everybody in Canada. Mm-hmm. . So that's definitely an issue. Uh, we work with a Canadian firearms program almost every single day.

[00:32:30] Business web services is a constant issue for our businesses. 

[00:32:33] Travis Bader: Right. 

[00:32:34] Jenn Gadbois: They , I guess. Yeah. . They can't get logged on. If they do get logged on, they're booted off. If it works, then the person's, you know, license goes for review. There's just portals that are supposed to be there. Aren't there features that were supposed to be there?

[00:32:49] Aren't there? Yeah, it's just a constant battle. Um, we're also working to make gunsmithing a recognized trade, which is something that's unfortunately kind of gone to the side with Bill C 21 being the main focus or the main priority right now. But that would be really exciting. I think 

[00:33:08] Travis Bader: that would be neat.

[00:33:09] So like, have a, uh, a sort of a trade or certification process or go through a like, 

[00:33:15] uh 

[00:33:15] Jenn Gadbois: Yep. A registered program at a college. Um, we've been working a lot with Sheridan College and a couple of mps up that way to help build a program. We can do, uh, apprentices or an app apprenticeship through this program, which would be really beneficial.

[00:33:31] It'd be nice to have some gunsmiths that, you know, took the time to learn what they're working on. 

[00:33:37] Travis Bader: Yeah. And I, I would imagine that a program like that would be heavily involved in just the regulations cuz there's so many gunsmiths. I get phone calls from Gunsmiths across Canada. And I'm no expert. I'm not a lawyer or anything.

[00:33:47] And, uh, what, what's the rule on this? What's the rule on that? I'm like, geez, I don't know. You're asking good questions here, right? Let me, here's my understanding. Right? 

[00:33:55] Jenn Gadbois: That's it. I mean, I think they can take a millwright course if that's the right course that I'm thinking of, and then they're good to go.

[00:34:04] But that doesn't really, well, not good to go, but, you know, that puts them on the right path. But that doesn't tell them anything about the regulations or, 

[00:34:11] Travis Bader: no. And, you know, gunsmith thinks such a broad topic. I mean, uh, I, years ago, so I started doing the training in 1994. I was still in high school at the time, but offering training for, um, the firearm safety course program when it first kind of came out, 2003, I incorporated Silver Corps.

[00:34:31] But between, uh, about 94 and 2003, I was doing gunsmithing just for the general public as well. Going onwards past 2003, I would be doing gunsmithing for. , uh, armor car companies like it was Lumis or Garda or g4 s or uh, whatever rendition of the name of Gosu all across Canada and Brinks and Churchill and C A B M and First Island and all, all of these different, and then extended work for law enforcement agencies like Abbotsford and Vancouver.

[00:35:01] And, um, but I didn't, although I'd done some armorer training down at the manufacturers like Smith and Wesson for example, or over in, um, SNIA, Georgia for, uh, Glock. Uh, really that's all a person needed in order to get, uh, business or law enforcement type work. And if you're doing work for the general public, you just say, Hey, I'm a gunsmith.

[00:35:27] I've got AE . I got ae, I'm a gunsmith. . 

[00:35:30] Jenn Gadbois: Exactly. 

[00:35:31] Uh, oh. Yeah. They're, I mean, we have like one local gunsmith here and people, I mean, he's, he works on my stuff. He is great, but people don't ask, they don't look for certification. They just, Hey, do you know a gunsmith? You give him this number and they're bringing their gun there because they have no one else to go 

[00:35:47] to.

[00:35:47] Travis Bader: Right. And the other part of it too is like, okay, what does that mean to be a gunsmith? So you can, you can make stalk, you can make a, you not say it to take a blank or you can from your own tree, you cut down. And I've practiced, I've built stocks in the past. It's not, it's not where my interest is and not where my, uh, I they turned out.

[00:36:07] Okay. But there's other much more talented woodworker out there. Oh, so you're, you're a machinist. Well, I've got the machines and they can use the machinery. Or you're a welder. Well, you know, I do some welding as well. There's so much that goes into. , just that gunsmithing moniker that you'll find that people will just spe specialize.

[00:36:28] They say, Hey, I'm, I like painting them, or I only work on pistols, or I'm a shotgun, and I'll just, I'll backboard and put chokes in. Uh, that's usually when I find somebody who's a gunsmith of everything. Um, that's either a very, very talented person or a person who can do a lot of things, but nothing really, uh, specialized.

[00:36:52] Jenn Gadbois: No, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's such a broad industry. 

[00:36:58] Travis Bader: Hmm. Yeah. Again, smithing, I, the general public one, I did that for some time, but the amount of tooling and different problems and things that come in and when you're a kid trying to do it, oftentimes I have people like I was in. Late teens, early twenties.

[00:37:16] And I'm not gonna charge people much cuz I'm still learning, but they're giving me the luxury to be able to learn on their firearms. So that's, I guess the kind of, the understanding. But I always remember, uh, it was an interesting one. They, a guy came in and he brought in a rifle and he says, uh, I got this barrel that I picked up.

[00:37:36] It's, uh, it needs to be chambered and threaded and cut and crowned and I want it. Uh, did he want a blue to parkerized? I think he wanted that one parkerized. And then I, uh, need a fit to the action. And I had a whole bunch, I want a trigger job done. I want, so I'm going through this whole list of things and I go into the Brown L's book and I look in the back at their recommended, uh, high low of what you, uh, would charge something.

[00:37:59] And even at the low side. it, I thought it was, it was a lot of money. And of course I wasn't making any money. And so I, I, I, I give him discounts on all these different pieces down, down the way I give him the gun and he says, okay, thanks. Throws it in the back of his truck where he goes. I'm like, oh, all right.

[00:38:17] Fair enough. Two weeks later he comes back and he's bought another barrel and he's got another action. He wants the exact same work done, but it's just in a different caliber and this time it goes through this thing. I'm like, holy crow. Well I'm gonna charge him on the high end of the Brown elves right here.

[00:38:34] Cause I told him I was giving him a deal on all of this stuff cuz he was talking about just being an old age pensioner. And now I'm feeling a little taken advantage of anyways. I charge 'em on the higher end of the stuff. I did the exact same work, the exact same job. He looks at the gun and he leaves, he goes back to his truck, he comes back and he's putting on some white gloves and he says, well 

[00:38:53] this, this one is quality work.

[00:38:56] You can tell. And I'm like, the only difference is I charged you more. Right. ? 

[00:39:00] Jenn Gadbois: Oh no. 

[00:39:02] Travis Bader: Anyways, for aspiring gunsmiths there. , if you're doing good work, charge properly for it. And then yes, a more people will want to be involved in the, uh, in the culture. Cuz it's a, it's a tough, tough go to make a living. 

[00:39:16] Jenn Gadbois: Oh, I bet.

[00:39:17] Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:39:19] Uh, I wanna 

[00:39:20] say, I'm sure, sure you get a lot of tried fixing it at home first sort of deals. 

[00:39:25] Travis Bader: Oh, 

[00:39:25] my favorite. My favorite is this white guy comes in and, you know, you get the baggo gun, right? And uh, where they come in, maybe there's one, maybe there's two, maybe there's three. And they're all thrown into a bag, right?

[00:39:37] And this guy comes in, he throws this thing down on the counter and I'm looking at it and you know, he is got the baggo gun and. . I look at him, I'm like, okay. Right. Like, what, what do you want? And uh, the first words outta his mouth, he was like, look at what my wife did to my gun . Oh God. Right. I'm sure your wife has nothing better to do, but to take your firearms apart.

[00:40:02] Exactly. Them pieces. Right. That's, uh, that, that, that one always makes me laugh. Or you know, another fellow who always, yeah. Another guy coming in on unnamed gunsmith, an unnamed gunsmith was working on this and they kind of mess it up. And I told them, I've gotta bring it into you. Unnamed gunsmith, what's your name?

[00:40:23] I think that's the name. Gunsmith. 

[00:40:25] Jenn Gadbois: They might have the same name. 

[00:40:27] Travis Bader: They might have the same name. . Yeah. So, uh, a proper program for having gunsmiths in Canada. That would be cool. . We need to have guns though, . I mean, we need people. Exactly. People need to be able to have guns. 

[00:40:44] Jenn Gadbois: That's why Bill C 21 and the OIC have kind of taken priority because Right.

[00:40:49] What are they gonna fix if everything's banned? Criminals don't bring their guns to the gunsmith. 

[00:40:54] Travis Bader: No, no. Not, not legitimate ones anyways. 

[00:40:56] Jenn Gadbois: No, exactly. 

[00:40:59] Travis Bader: Um, interesting. So I've been seeing a lot of pictures of you out, uh, bird hunting and you're an avid Turkey hunter. I understand. 

[00:41:09] Jenn Gadbois: Yeah. Um, goose hunting has been my, you know, big thing these past couple of weeks, seasons open and they're all landing in the fields, so mm-hmm.

[00:41:18] but they're getting geese and. Filling up the freezer with plenty of sausage and ground and steak. Um, nice. For Turkey, I usually only go in the springtime. It is open in the fall as well here, but I'm more focused on goose and deer in the fall. 

[00:41:37] Travis Bader: Were you always into this or is this something that kind of came one as part of your job function?

[00:41:41] You're just broadening your, your horizon. . 

[00:41:46] Jenn Gadbois: Um, 

[00:41:46] I didn't grow up around hunting or guns at all. Uh, I was actually always very interested in it, very interested in being outside, uh, exploring, exploring the outdoors, being self-sufficient, but never, of course, like I said, grew around hunting or firearms. So right after college I had the opportunity to take my one stop hunter and pal course.

[00:42:07] Okay. So I did that, did a little bit of research on my own, and got hunting permission from a local farmer and just went out with my muzzle loader and basically trial and error. Went deer hunting, um, trial and error basically. Yeah. You know? Yeah. 

[00:42:27] Travis Bader: Were you successful a little too? 

[00:42:28] Jenn Gadbois: Yes. Um, I mean, I did learn a lot that year.

[00:42:31] The last day of muzzle loader, I got a, a decent dough. It was pretty exciting. Yes. . But up until then I was, yeah, just kind of learning to call, learning their habits, learning the routine, what works and what doesn't work. And of course I'm still learning every time I go, what 

[00:42:48] did I learn? 

[00:42:49] Travis Bader: Oh man. So, so it was everybody I know.

[00:42:52] Second, you stop learning, that's the time to kind of hang it all up, but pack, right? Yeah. You're not, yeah. That's what drives me. I love the fact that I'm just outside and I'm, the more you learn, the more connected you are with nature. And I think from a mental health standpoint and just, just a, a human standpoint, that's a very necessary thing for people.

[00:43:13] Jenn Gadbois: Yeah. I think hunting is really healthy and like many ways, like you're saying, even when I was tricky hunting this spring, it was the first day the season had opened and I got to the field before. Shooting time, and I could already hear them gobbling . So I'm like laying down in the field waiting and they come down and it's not shooting time yet.

[00:43:33] So I'm just watching them do their thing. But even just watching these animals, you learn a lot about how they interact and how they react to certain things. So yes, it's really nice to just take a moment, sit down and watch them. 

[00:43:47] Travis Bader: You know, I've got, I don't know what it is on the, uh, on my podcast here, but if I take a look at metrics for some reason, uh, the podcast that I do with women don't rank as well as a podcast that I do with men.

[00:44:02] And I'm wondering if that's just based on the subject matter and the, um, uh, the listenership or, or what it might be. I was talking who's fishing last week with a friend of mine. He's got a, um, popular podcast, April Voki. He's got, uh, anchored and our website anchored outdoors. and, uh, we were discussing this and try trying to get to the root of it.

[00:44:24] She feels it's probably, probably just the audience, but, um, I gotta, I don't know. Is I, I guess this leads to the obvious question about being a, a female in, uh, a traditionally male dominated area. Firearms and hunting have traditionally been the, the domain for men. And, uh, you are all over social media as a role model for other men and women to see kinda what's out there and what to do.

[00:44:56] Do, are you, do you encounter much of that? I mean, is that something even worth talking about? 

[00:45:02] Jenn Gadbois: Yeah. Um, because of course we look at the statistics and insights on the social media pages, and I think it's something like 17% of my followers, um, over the platforms are women. Okay. And. . I always get more excited when I see another woman, like a legit account because of course there's tons of spam accounts that follow , Uhhuh, , yes.

[00:45:25] But if I see a legitimate outdoor lady account or anyone that's slightly interested in what I'm doing, I get so excited because I really wanna see that number bump up. We need more women interested in the outdoors, interested in hunting, interested in shooting to keep that culture going. 

[00:45:45] Travis Bader: You know, it's, it's usually something that if people don't get it when they're a child through a family member, and traditionally it's been like the father would take a, uh, the child out hunting or fishing.

[00:45:56] But if they don't get that exposure as it goes on in life, I'm, although I'm seeing a resurgence and I think Covid has been, uh, a, a good pusher for, uh, wanting to get people outside, hopefully that, that, uh, impetus continues. Not covid, but the motivation and, um, but uh, having those strong role models in the house, I think is hypercritical to.

[00:46:25] Our, our society in general, just knowing where your food comes from. Having a respect for nature, having a respect for those around you is, is all kinda learned through, through, um, both firearms and, and hunting. 

[00:46:39] Jenn Gadbois: Exactly. The discipline, knowing how to respectfully handle a firearm, even, I mean, there's so much to be learned through hunting and like you said, yeah.

[00:46:49] You get a better respect and appreciation from where your food comes from. Animals in general. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I think hunting's, even, even if someone isn't going to pursue hunting, I still think that at least firearm safety or some small hunting course should be taught in schools. But that's just my 

[00:47:07] opinion.

[00:47:08] Travis Bader: you know what I think they should do? I, I'll speak it out loud. Anyone else can steal my idea from me if they want, but, uh, I think they should modularize everything. Uh, I think. The school system should teach outdoor education. And then from what I understand, uh, from my kids being in school, they, uh, based on the indigenous studies, some schools view just being outdoors and outdoors education as part of indigenous studies.

[00:47:34] I'm not sure how the correlation happens, but, um, that's okay. That's okay. 

[00:47:39] Jenn Gadbois: Um, if, if we're not teachers, 

[00:47:41] Travis Bader: that's it. If it's getting people outside, but if you wanna put a hunting course into a school or a firearms course into the school, there's gonna be that one great big, um, flag that schools have a difficult time getting behind.

[00:47:56] And that's the firearm portion of it. Yes. But if you modularize that, uh, you can give an awareness to firearms if you wish, or completely keep it out just so that you have some of the, uh, the programs in the school and people can on their own time and night school or afterwards, whatever it is. Take the additional modules to get completed.

[00:48:18] But if you can incorporate that as a part of a curriculum, people can be learning outdoor education skills, they can wildlife identification, uh, uh, outdoor safety and first aid and, uh, basic legal studies of what, what people can and can't be doing outside. I think that would be a, um, uh, really help people connect with their natural environment.

[00:48:38] And it would also, um, possibly help motivate people if they only have to take a little bit more of a step in order to get themselves fully certified. Why not? 

[00:48:49] Jenn Gadbois: Exactly. I think that's a really good idea. I know I would've really benefited from a course like that in school and it keeps kids busy and I mean, we're always trying to push these youth programs because of, in inner city gang issues.

[00:49:03] So that's yet another program that kids can get into that keeps them out of trouble outside doing something productive and constructive. 

[00:49:10] Travis Bader: Yeah. Just hood hoods in the woods without the guns. 

[00:49:13] Jenn Gadbois: Yep. . 

[00:49:14] Travis Bader: There you go. 

[00:49:15] Jenn Gadbois: Absolutely. 

[00:49:16] Travis Bader: Um, excellent. What else? What else is a CSAAA up to? What should, what should the listeners know?

[00:49:26] Jenn Gadbois: What 

[00:49:26] should the listeners know? Um, We will hopefully be moving forward with our legal challenge for Bill C 21 soon. We're just working with a few legal teams to try and see what the best possible outcome will be for our members, because of course we wanna make sure that they're fairly compensated for all of the losses that they've endured so far, and will endure once the unfortunate handgun freeze comes through.

[00:49:51] Mm-hmm. ? Um, yeah, . But yeah, we've just been very busy with everything that I've mentioned previously. Now that the house is sitting again on Bill C 21, that should be exciting. They should be meeting in about 45 minutes to discuss C 21 again, so I'll be watching that for 

[00:50:08] sure. 

[00:50:09] Travis Bader: Okay. And if there's any news on that, you'll be posting that up online, I'm sure.

[00:50:13] Jenn Gadbois: Absolutely. Oh yeah. I'm sure there's a few people that'll be watching that, that are gonna be live tweeting that so everyone can know what's happening and what kind of nonsense is being 

[00:50:23] said. 

[00:50:24] Travis Bader: do you find, because I'm, I'm noticing now the CSAAA social media presence is 

[00:50:31] uh, greatly expanded it, I take it.

[00:50:33] That's been one of your pushes, has it? 

[00:50:35] Jenn Gadbois: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I'm just trying to raise awareness and everything and make the public, cuz I mean, it's easier for us to communicate with our members through email, but it's good to make the public more aware of the industry challenges as 

[00:50:46] well. Hmm. 

[00:50:48] Travis Bader: I've, so in past podcast I did with Dan Fritter, he was talking about how I, I know one of his passions is automobiles and he'll post some silly thing about a firearm and some silly thing about an automobile, and he'll see that the firearm gets some traction, but the automobile just takes off and he says, you know, I'm pretty certain the algorithm is favoring certain things and suppressing other things.

[00:51:14] And people talk about being shadow banned. Uh Yep. Do you notice any of that in your dealings of, uh, difficulty in gaining traction? 

[00:51:24] Jenn Gadbois: I think it's really funny that you mentioned that because there's uh, a friend of mine, she's from BC um, and you know, in the firearms community as well and she actually messaged me yesterday on Instagram and she said, I'm pretty sure your shadow band, cause I went to go search for your name and your profile isn't coming up at all.

[00:51:41] And usually, you know, that's a sign that you shadow band. Yeah. Cause you don't come up in the search. And I'm thinking, I bet you, you know, I've been posting a lot more animal carcasses lately. Yes. This goose season and Yes. A lot more guns and a lot more political posts. So Instagram probably thought, you know, we're, we've seen enough of her for a little while.

[00:52:02] We're quieter countdown. But yeah, no, definitely. Um, anything firearms related seems to be very suppressed on social media. Well, any media, I mean, mainstream media, we don't get any airtime. So 

[00:52:14] Travis Bader: isn't that scary? How, how we can have, I mean, everyone talks about it. Everyone talks about the, the media control or media agendas or.

[00:52:23] Um, but everyone's got an agenda and sometimes their agendas are, you know, their heart's in the right place and they're trying to do good, but it, it gets pretty scary when, uh, law abiding and, you know, uh, Nicholas from the gun blog, you'd have probably take, um, uh, exception to, I'm calling a law abiding firearms owner cuz he's, he had some good thoughts on that.

[00:52:50] But law abiding, firearms owner, law abiding people can do law abiding things, but essentially be relegated to the shadows. That's, 

[00:52:58] Jenn Gadbois: that's it. And I never understood that. I mean, when I first started on social media, it was just whenever the gun ban was first implemented, I thought, I need to do something. I need to learn more about this.

[00:53:09] So I started social media, I guess, um mm-hmm. , and I was just so shocked that something that I just thought was so normal, like hunting and sports shooting. And so innocent was so frowned upon online. I mean, my first few posts, it was just so many hate comments about the fact that I was using a firearm

[00:53:28] And I'm thinking like, what is the big deal? Like, do you guys what Now I, I realize, yeah. People are basically encouraged to hate anyone that hunts or has a gun or thinks differently than them. And the internet's a very easy place to do that. 

[00:53:43] Travis Bader: What would, what advice would you give to people who are kinda up and coming and getting on social media?

[00:53:48] Like how, how can a message be shared in a positive way, in an environment that's actively trying to suppress certain aspects of it? , 

[00:53:56] Jenn Gadbois: you just have 

[00:53:56] to keep posting. Cause I know a lot of people will post something and it'll get negative reviews and they'll take it down and get discouraged and never post again.

[00:54:04] Mm-hmm. , I think a lot of it comes from just not really caring what other people think, especially if their opinion might not be an educated one. Mm-hmm. , um, sure. But yeah, just keep posting so that you can find the people that are in your niche that think the same way as you. And you, I mean, I don't really respond to a lot of the negative comments because there are accounts that just literally live to spew negativity on, you know, gun posts or gun pages.

[00:54:31] Yeah. So either you don't reply or you reply with a positive and educational response so that other people can read that and see how they can reply better to not gaslight or cause any issues. . 

[00:54:46] Travis Bader: Yeah. It's, you know, I like the positive approach. I think if you can always just take the high road and take the positive approach, that's great.

[00:54:52] I know sometimes people have to get in the trenches or they feel they have to get in the trenches and, and fight, uh, you know, sometimes and ignore is worth two slaps in the face, right? 

[00:55:03] Jenn Gadbois: Um, yeah, absolutely. 

[00:55:05] Travis Bader: But if, if, you can always take it from the, the positive aspects or, I remember Shane Mahoney talking about this is more on the hunting side, he says like, why, why put your hands up and try and start walking up against the stream when you can flow with a stream and try and direct that into a place that, uh, is more favorable, where you want to go.

[00:55:27] And what he was specifically looking at was, um, something that I think others have identified as well, but the, uh, uh, the food movement in the lo eat local food. and, uh, know where your food comes from and, uh, no, no hormones and all of those sort of things. Just piggyback on something that's already rather popular and use that as a means to help get the message out about perhaps hunting or how firearms play a portion of that.

[00:55:56] Jenn Gadbois: Yeah, 

[00:55:57] I like that. Something people can identify 

[00:55:58] with. 

[00:55:59] Travis Bader: Mm-hmm. , I'm wondering if there's other things that are sort of in the zeitgeist, sort of the spirit of the times that are, uh, popular and pushing forward. I know during Covid it was get outside. Um, yeah, there's the other side. Uh, political instability makes people wanna protect themselves and they look at a firearm as a means for protection.

[00:56:19] But, uh, uh, some might argue that's a negative. Maybe me, maybe. Yeah. Protecting yourself. I don't know. 

[00:56:26] Jenn Gadbois: Um, I mean, even just little things. I, I try and do some events at my local gun range, and I think even putting out events that are for an. Unrelated charity. A local charity at least gets your local citizens out because they wanna support that local charity.

[00:56:43] And it just shows, it normalizes, maybe the gun ownership more. It just shows, look, they're having a shooting competition and all the funds go towards this women's shelter, let's say. Hmm. At least it gets a different group of people involved and looking. 

[00:57:00] Travis Bader: Yeah. That's a good call. That's a good call. We ran a, um, an event a couple months ago, I guess a couple months now in Nova Scotia, uh, well attended.

[00:57:10] That was a fun event. Uh, we do in a lot of different provinces. The call across Canada, we have federal shoots Last, last week was it? Yeah. We had one here in BC where, uh, it was specifically designed for, uh, youth and new shooters that come out and experienced a range in a welcoming and safe environment.

[00:57:28] And, uh, We had a separate range also set up for people who are experienced and just wanna cite their rifle in for hunting season . So, uh, yeah, so we can have the, a humane ethical harvest. They're not, uh, um, losing animals. It, it can be, it plays in well with, uh, that's one of the, um, things that is hammered into people in BC anyways.

[00:57:53] And there's been contention about it. It's a test question. Uh, what's the first step in, uh, limiting, uh, waste to game meat? And they say setting in your rifles the first step? Well, there's a lot of other steps you can probably take, but anyways, we had, that's a good first one. Yeah. We, we had Vortex and Reliable Gun and, uh, tiger Arms and Thompson Mountain Range.

[00:58:16] Uh 

[00:58:16] Jenn Gadbois: oh, amazing. 

[00:58:17] Travis Bader: Yeah. B C W F and backcountry hunters and anglers, and they're all promoting it as well. And man, we got a whole slew cross section of society out there. Uh, some people who said, I've, I'm just curious. I never thought I'd ever touch a gun in my life and thank you so much. I'm, I'm interested, I like this.

[00:58:36] Or, you know, maybe they leave and they say it's not for them. Maybe they're just being polite, but they had that opportunity 

[00:58:44] Jenn Gadbois: and they 

[00:58:44] have a better understanding also. 

[00:58:47] Travis Bader: Right. 

[00:58:47] Jenn Gadbois: Even if they don't get into it, I think at the end of the day they'll have a better understanding of how a gun range operates and how the people that own these firearms act.

[00:58:56] Travis Bader: Yeah. We're your neighbors we're coworkers, 

[00:58:59] right? 

[00:59:00] Jenn Gadbois: We're 

[00:59:00] just normal people. 

[00:59:01] Travis Bader: Yeah. Well, most of us anyways. 

[00:59:04] Jenn Gadbois: Well, yes. 

[00:59:05] Normal-ish . 

[00:59:06] Travis Bader: That's right. Which, yeah. Blends in there. Is there anything else that we should be, uh, chatting about before, um, anything else the audio should know about? 

[00:59:15] Jenn Gadbois: shoot. I am sure there's stuff that's gonna come up as soon as we hang up.

[00:59:19] Um, I can't think of anything 

[00:59:21] right now. 

[00:59:22] Travis Bader: Well, fingers crossed we have video in this as well as audio. Fingers crossed the audio comes, came through. We, uh, we did a little speed test on our connection beforehand and, uh, what was mine like, I came up with like 1 68 and 1 53 for my upload and 1 68 for the download.

[00:59:40] And I think you were Yeah. Did two and 0.2 for your, uh, so I'm, I'm really, I'm really hoping all of this made it through and I hope this, if it didn't, I'm gonna have to fly over to your neck of the woods, . 

[00:59:54] Jenn Gadbois: Sounds good. 

[00:59:55] Travis Bader: Okay. 

[00:59:57] So good. 

[00:59:58] Jenn Gadbois: Well, 

[00:59:58] thank you very much. 

[01:00:00] Travis Bader: Well, Jen, thank you very much for being on the SO podcast.

[01:00:03] Jenn Gadbois: I'm 

[01:00:03] really glad you're able to do this.